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Women In Islam And Christian - umm Zachariah - 09-15-2004
JohnDoe,
I didn't say your road is blind, did I? My road is called the Sirat-al-Mustaqim, the STRAIT Path, the blind alley that you refer to may be the road in the next block?...
Don't you have any week points? It IS rather human you know...
I am not sure if it says permission or not in any case, this may belong to the Hadith, I hope one of my brothers or sisters can help me out to find the right one. Do you have time to wait a bit for the answer, or are you going somewhere?
Just a reflection, if your wife says, STOP you cannot go to the store right now, beacuse... IF you adhear her, what you really did in the first place was to 'ask' for her permission to go. (You don't always have to use the ? mark.) If it is ok, if she can be without you for a little while. You can ask in different ways. Just a reflection...
No, I as a female living and practising Islam and doing my best to follow the Qur'an and Sunnah, no again, I don't feel dominated by any male, I absolutely not feel marginalised and by no way am I treated inferior. And now bear in mind that I speak of MUSLIM mens treatments, not others. I don't say that all non-Muslims are behaving badly, many are descent, BUT that is because they BEHAVE differently when they see a woman totally covered up. It is the way I understood Islam before I entered and this is how I deeply experience it today. And this is MY truth by living by Islam. I feel free within Islam. When I meet an unknown man on the pavement and he takes several steps to the side not to be confronted to me, that makes me so happy. That makes me feel respected and honoured. Believe me I have tried also to live as a 'free woman' in a 'free society' walking down the street meeting people on the way and THAT kind of freedom I have NO wish to have back. It is like comparing the Muslim behaviour with Paradise and the other one with the other place. I have to exaggerate a bit to waken you up.
Good. But here you are talking of ABUSE, that is another matter. So the womens lib is well needed in the west, in spite all equality? I wonder why?...
The discription you mention is probably taken from Islam, admit it you took it from there!
Let me just make a very small reflection. If I hew wood, I do it because I am a woman not beacause I have to do what a man does. Besides you men (I assume you are one, sorry if I am mistaken) will NEVER be able to bear a child and deliver it, so if you want to make an equal list that contains doing things 50/50 that will never do. In a lifetime. The equality factor in Islam adhear this kind of different roles. It has nothing to do with being unequal. But IF you really don't even WANT to have in insight in this, you will never understand this wisdom. It will remain a secret for you.
Regards
Women In Islam And Christian - umm Zachariah - 09-15-2004
JohnDoe,
Shorties;
Don't tell me!
Point 2 and 3 goes hand in hand, resting a bit.
WRONG! Women AND men are equal in Islam, womens role is to bear children the mens role is not to bear children. I cannot put it any clearer than this. IF you don't understand what role is and what equality is, I cannot help you on this. I did try anyway.
Will be resting my case for this day, my duty as wife and mother is calling!
![[Image: smile.gif]](http://www.islamsms.com/bb/html/emoticons/smile.gif)
Regards
Women In Islam And Christian - NaSra - 09-16-2004
Umm Zachariah Asalamalaykum Sister,
Quote:If women were equal, women would be allowed more than one spouse.
Omg, are you serious? Let me tell you why Islam does not allow that, it's because Allah is All-Aware that it will create a problem of kinship. This means that the child may not know who is actually his real father (it could be anyone of the four/three or two husbands...) thats logical. In addition to the psychological damage it may cause, Even birds and animals do not allow polyandry. God, if your chance of believing that Islam grants women equality depends on why women can't have multiple husbands than you don't know what equality means.
It is also worth to know that Islam gives a woman the right to refuse Polygamy for her husband by setting it as a condition during the marriage procedures. If this condition is set, then the woman is granted divorce if her husband marries another while still with her.
Did you know that? I bet not.
The Quran gives women full respect during marriage and after divorce. For example, a The Prophet said: <b>the most perfect believers are the best in conduct and the best of you are those who are best to their wives.</b>
Women have the right to education: Islam does not deprive women from being educated. On the contrary, Allah and his prophet urged women to have their education, as they bring up a new generation that is supposed to benefit the coming generation.
We Muslim women have the right to work in Islam: The Prophet was keen to see women educated, as they bring up the coming generation that will benefit its community. The mother should be educated to benefit those young children with her knowledge and education. But she doesn't have to work if she wants, Despite any wealth she may have, her husband is obligated to provide her with food, shelter and clothing.
Quote: can a woman leave the house without a mans permission or being unaccompanied by a man. Lets say you are at home alone, does Islamic teaching allow a woman to leave the house without asking for the permission of a male?
Why is that so bad? We are talking about two people who are married, who love each other more than anything in this world, what’s wrong if the wife lets her husband know where she is going? What's so oppressing about that? It is an act of mutual respect between a couple, Allah says in the Quraan that men are the protectors of women.
What you don't understand is that we take our orders from the Noble Qur'an (Speech of Allah) and the sayings of Prophet Mohammed (May Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) not man-made rules. We fellow gods rules gladly, we are not striving to be "independent" because we already are independant + liberated, we have been liberated since fourteen centuries ago.
Why does liberation seem to be synonymous with taking ones clothes off and competing with men? Why does it have to prove that a woman is equal to a man? Why are half the women in the world controlled by the male dominated fashion industry? What is liberating about being told each year how long your skirt will be, how high your shirt will be, what kind of neck line and sleeves you will wear. Yet when a Muslim woman chooses to be respected for her religious conviction as a mother and wife and intelligence, she is considered controlled and abused?
I rather be a slave to Allah then anything else, and John spare us your sympathy and your pitying we are really fine
Women In Islam And Christian - lifutushi - 09-16-2004
Question:
Why is a man allowed to have more than one wife in Islam? i.e. why is polygamy allowed in Islam?
Answer:
1. Definition of Polygamy
Polygamy means a system of marriage whereby one person has more than one spouse. Polygamy can be of two types. One is polygyny where a man marries more than one woman, and the other is polyandry, where a woman marries more than one man. In Islam, limited polygyny is permitted; whereas polyandry is completely prohibited.
Now coming to the original question, why is a man allowed to have more than one wife?
2. The Qur’an is the only religious scripture in the world that says,"marry only one".
The Qur’an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase ‘marry only one’. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the other religious scriptures, whether it be the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta, the Talmud or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.
Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives.
In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished, since the Bible puts no restriction on the number of wives. It was only a few centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one.
Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had three wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah (960 C.E to 1030 C.E) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, until an Act of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.
3. Qur’an permits limited polygyny
As I mentioned earlier, Qur’an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says ‘marry only one’. The context of this phrase is the following verse from Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur’an:
"Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one."
[Al-Qur’an 4:3]
Before the Qur’an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them.
In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says:
"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Qur’an 4:129]
Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife.
Broadly, Islam has five categories of Do’s and Don’ts:
i. ‘Fard’ i.e. compulsory or obligatory
ii. ‘Mustahab’ i.e. recommended or encouraged
iii. ‘Mubah’ i.e. permissible or allowed
iv. ‘Makruh’ i.e. not recommended or discouraged
v. ‘Haraam’ i.e. prohibited or forbidden
Polygyny falls in the middle category of things that are permissible. It cannot be said that a Muslim who has two, three or four wives is a better Muslim as compared to a Muslim who has only one wife.
4. Average life span of females is more than that of males
By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. A female child has more immunity than a male child. A female child can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, during the pediatric age itself there are more deaths among males as compared to the females.
During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers.
5. World female population is more than male population
In the USA, women outnumber men by 7.8 million. New York alone has one million more females as compared to the number of males, and of the male population of New York one-third are gays i.e sodomites. The U.S.A as a whole has more than twenty-five million gays. This means that these people do not wish to marry women. Great Britain has four million more females as compared to males. Germany has five million more females as compared to males. Russia has nine million more females than males. God alone knows how many million more females there are in the whole world as compared to males.
6. Restricting each and every man to have only one wife is not practical
Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million females in U.S.A who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays). There would be more than four million females in Great Britain, 5 million females in Germany and nine million females in Russia alone who would not be able to find a husband.
Suppose my sister happens to be one of the unmarried women living in USA, or suppose your sister happens to be one of the unmarried women in USA. The only two options remaining for her are that she either marries a man who already has a wife or becomes public property. There is no other option. All those who are modest will opt for the first.
In Western society, it is common for a man to have mistresses and/or multiple extra-marital affairs, in which case, the woman leads a disgraceful, unprotected life. The same society, however, cannot accept a man having more than one wife, in which women retain their honourable, dignified position in society and lead a protected life.
Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second.
There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women.
Women In Islam And Christian - lifutushi - 09-16-2004
Question:
If a man is allowed to have more than one wife, then why does Islam prohibit a woman from having more than one husband?
Answer:
A lot of people, including some Muslims, question the logic of allowing Muslim men to have more than one spouse while denying the same ‘right’ to women.
Let me first state emphatically, that the foundation of an Islamic society is justice and equity. Allah has created men and women as equal, but with different capabilities and different responsibilities. Men and women are different, physiologically and psychologically. Their roles and responsibilities are different. Men and women are equal in Islam, but not identical.
Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verses 22 to 24 gives the list of women with who you can not marry and it is further mentions in Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verse 24 "Also (prohibited are) women already married"
The following points enumerate the reasons why polyandry is prohibited in Islam:
1. If a man has more than one wife, the parents of the children born of such marriages can easily be identified. The father as well as the mother can easily be identified. In case of a woman marrying more than one husband, only the mother of the children born of such marriages will be identified and not the father. Islam gives tremendous importance to the identification of both parents, mother and father. Psychologists tell us that children who do not know their parents, especially their father undergo severe mental trauma and disturbances. Often they have an unhappy childhood. It is for this reason that the children of prostitutes do not have a healthy childhood. If a child born of such wedlock is admitted in school, and when the mother is asked the name of the father, she would have to give two or more names! I am aware that recent advances in science have made it possible for both the mother and father to be identified with the help of genetic testing. Thus this point which was applicable for the past may not be applicable for the present.
2. Man is more polygamous by nature as compared to a woman.
3. Biologically, it is easier for a man to perform his duties as a husband despite having several wives. A woman, in a similar position, having several husbands, will not find it possible to perform her duties as a wife. A woman undergoes several psychological and behavioral changes due to different phases of the menstrual cycle.
4. A woman who has more than one husband will have several sexual partners at the same time and has a high chance of acquiring venereal or sexually transmitted diseases which can also be transmitted back to her husband even if all of them have no extra-marital sex. This is not the case in a man having more than one wife, and none of them having extra-marital sex.
The above reasons are those that one can easily identify. There are probably many more reasons why Allah, in His Infinite Wisdom, has prohibited polyandry.
Women In Islam And Christian - lifutushi - 09-16-2004
Question:
What is the difference between Islamic 'fairness' and western's 'fairness'?
1) in western culture, to be fair is to be equal and same, i.e. woman is equal to man in every aspect
2) in Islam, to be fair is to put something in the right place
for example, let say that i'm going to give a present to both Umm Zachariah and JohnDoe. if i gave Umm Zachariah a skirt, should i give JohnDoe the same type of skirt to be fair? that would be equal, and fair in western definition.
but not in Islam. In Islam, if i give JohnDoe a pair of silver tabs jeans it also would be fair although a skirt is not the same as the jeans....
same rule apply to various aspect of life....
Women In Islam And Christian - umm Zachariah - 09-16-2004
Assalamu aleikum brother and sister,
MashAllah my line for internet was broken half day today. Alhamdullillah for given John some answers, I hope he will come around, that the coin will fall down. Brother did I like that skirt and skirt/jeans comparising. If one is not able to UNDERSTAND THAT, then it may be a bit hopless to explain.
JohnDoe I feel my brother and sister answered the rest of the questions you had, and for now I don't have anything to add. But I am sure we will meet again, hopefully with some new FRESH questions.
Wasalam
Women In Islam And Christian - umm Zachariah - 09-16-2004
JohnDoe,
just one silly comment to this, MY skirt is LOOOOONG, yours is SHOOOORT!
Regards
Women In Islam And Christian - lifutushi - 09-17-2004
a kilt is a kilt, a woman skirt is a woman skirt...they are different... even in my place there is a kind of traditional clothing that looks like a skirt called 'sampin' and wore by men...
but it's not a skirt...
about the polygamy, you should really read my previous posts coz i'm not considering repeating the same stories...
Women In Islam And Christian - lifutushi - 09-17-2004
Quote: <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lifutushi" data-cite="lifutushi" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="1904" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> a kilt is a kilt, a woman skirt is a woman skirt...they are different... even in my place there is a kind of traditional clothing that looks like a skirt called 'sampin' and wore by men...
but it's not a skirt...
about the polygamy, you should really read my previous posts coz i'm not considering repeating the same stories...
I have read them before. They are misleading and some of it is downright lies. Look through earlier threads on the topic where I have pointed it out.
</div></blockquote>
which one is misleading? which one is a downright lie? you should specify....
you haven't pointed out anything from the Qur'an, i haven't seen any quotation from the Qur'an in your posts. you talked about regional laws, not Qur'anic laws...