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Penalty of converting to Christianity - AlShamms - 03-28-2006
"And no bearer of burdens shall bear another's burden, and if one heavily laden calls another to (bear) his load, nothing of it will be lifted even though he be near of kin. You (O Muhammad) can warn only those who fear their Lord unseen, and perform the prayer. And he who purifies himself (from all kinds of sins), then he purifies only for the benefit of his ownself. And to Allah is the (final) Return (of all)." (Quran 35:18)
Quote:I believe that means that I cannot accept your burden, nor can you accept mine. I don't think it applies to the Son of Allah
Peace.....
Another thing, How that the above Qur'anic verse apply to Christ when he himself stated:
Matthew 11:27 - All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matthew 11:28 - Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:29 - <b>Take my yoke upon you
</b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.</span>
Matthew 11:30 - <b>For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light
</b><span style="text-decoration:underline;">.</span>
So according to Qur'an, Christ cannot bear your burden for you, however according to Christ, you can lay your burden down, and take his.
One to ponder......
Shamms
Penalty of converting to Christianity - Faris_Mee - 03-28-2006
http://www.islamsms.com/bb//index.php?showtopic=3325
Penalty of converting to Christianity - Don Singleton - 03-29-2006
Quote:Don, there will be no agreement on that last point, because muslims don't believe, and Islam does not teach, that Jesus was the son of God. Qur'an teaches and muslims believe, he was just a human, a prophet like Isaiah or Jeremiah, but human nontheless.</quote>
<b>I recognize that Islam does not teach that, but it is true, and that is why Abdul Rahman had to leave Islam, because he came to realize that it is true.</b>
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The Qur'an teaches that Jesus was not the only begotten son of God, but that Allah begets not.
<b>Did Allah not create Adam in his own image?</b>
If Adam had the ability to beget sons, why do you believe that He who created Adam did not also have the ability to beget sons?
Quote: The Qur'an also teaches that Christ was not crucified but only made to appear so. </quote>
<b>I am aware of that (4:157-158) but your Prophet was not there, and I suspect he may have relied on what some Jew told him. Since they were the ones that had him killed, they had reason to cover up what they did.</b>
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Remember what Christ himself taught:.... Paul in his letter to the believers at Corinth had this to say: 1st Corinthians 15:12 .... 1st Corinthians 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
<b>You were going good there, but you stopped a bit soon.</b>
1st Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Quote:If Jesus Christ was never crucified as the Qur'an teaches, then Christ was not raised. These are two very different messages from two very different sources. How can you believe they come from the same God?
<b>The came from the same God, but they were written down by men, and men can make mistakes. The God of Adam, Moses, Noah, and Abraham is the God of the Jews, as he is the God of the Christians, and the God of the Muslims.</b>
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Penalty of converting to Christianity - Don Singleton - 03-29-2006
Quote:How that the above Qur'anic verse (35:18) apply to Christ when he himself stated:
Matthew 11:28 - Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:29 - <b>Take my yoke upon you</b>, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:30 - <b>For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light</b>.
So according to Qur'an, Christ cannot bear your burden for you, however according to Christ, you can lay your burden down, and take his.
<b>No (35:18) is talking about one man not being able to carry another man's burden.</b>
But surely you believe that Allah can help you carry your burden.
And if Allah can do it, why can't the Son of Allah
Penalty of converting to Christianity - AlShamms - 03-29-2006
Peace....
Don, perhaps you aren't clear, but I am not muslim, I am christian. ;)
Penalty of converting to Christianity - Don Singleton - 03-29-2006
Quote:Don, perhaps you aren't clear, but I am not muslim, I am christian. ;)
That was not clear, but I am happy to meet another Christian here.
I believe there is much we can learn from talking to people of different faiths, although it is somewhat difficult if they take the position that their faith is the only right way. Some Muslims are not the only ones that fall into that category. I have seen Protestants that can't respect Catholics, and vice versa, and even some Protestants that can't respect other Protestants. As I understand it, Muslims have the same problem, with the division between the Shia and the Sunni
I cannot believe that God/Allah likes seeing such divisions in His creation.
Everyone should respect the faith of others.
What is really sad is there are some clerics that lie to their members and try to get them to kill innocents and thereby stir up a big conflict to give them more political power (even though Quran 4.93 tells what will really happen to them). These false clerics have some vision that it will result in a new Caliphate, while we have read, in Revelation, what really will happen. I will be happy to see our Lord return, but I would be equally happy to meet him in Heaven when I die.
Penalty of converting to Christianity - Muslimah - 03-29-2006
Bisimillah
Salam
Thank u so much Shamms for clarifying this point. This is a deteminant point in Islamic teachings.
Jesus is a miracle on the whole, starting from the day he was born to a virgin woman who was called in Quran the purest woman on earth. She was so much honored and respected in Quran through a whole chapter on her name. Till the day of his departure. Allah Never Allowed the Jews to even put him on the cross. No for Allah Defends His Messengers so well and Protects them in a way that amazes everyone. Abandoning him to be crucified and die on the cross is demeaning to Allah as a Creator. Like Allah Cannt Protect, let us assume the only son, from his enemies.
Any way, Jesus was never crucified but raised to Allah alive. He is to return to earth when the Day After approaches and this will be one of the major signs of the Day after.
Shamms u even confused me more, look at the underlined part of the verse, is he son of man, or son of god?? let me know pls.
Quote:Peace....
Don, there will be no agreement on that last point, because muslims don't believe, and Islam does not teach, that Jesus was the son of God. Qur'an teaches and muslims believe, he was just a human, a prophet like Isaiah or Jeremiah, but human nontheless. The Qur'an teaches that Jesus was not the only begotten son of God, but that Allah begets not. The Qur'an also teaches that Christ was not crucified but only made to appear so. Remember what Christ himself taught:
Matthew 12:40 - For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the <b>Son of man </b>
be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
If Jesus Christ was never crucified as the Qur'an teaches, then Christ was not raised. These are two very different messages from two very different sources. How can you believe they come from the same God? Muslims claim they believe in Jesus, but it is not the Jesus of the Bible, it is the Jesus mentioned in the Qur'an, which according to both accounts, are two very different men. So there won't be an agreement on that point.
And Faris, thanks for the correction on the name.. I won't forget ;)
Shamms
Penalty of converting to Christianity - Muslimah - 03-29-2006
Bismillah
salam
Just a clarification for both of u and any other non Muslim. Being a native Arabic speaker Alhamdulelah is a major blessing.
Burden here refers to sins. No one is allowed and will not be allowed to be responsible for someone else's sin. A father cannt help a son and vice versa.
Only Allah and Allah Alone is authorised to forgive and eliminate and even turn such sins into good deeds.
Hope I helped in this point.
:)
Quote:<b>No (35:18) is talking about one man not being able to carry another man's burden.</b>
But surely you believe that Allah can help you carry your burden.
And if Allah can do it, why can't the Son of Allah
Because he is not Allah, even if this was true. No one just no one is like Allah
Penalty of converting to Christianity - AlShamms - 03-29-2006
Quote:Bisimillah
Salam
Thank u so much Shamms for clarifying this point. This is a deteminant point in Islamic teachings.
Jesus is a miracle on the whole, starting from the day he was born to a virgin woman who was called in Quran the purest woman on earth. She was so much honored and respected in Quran through a whole chapter on her name. Till the day of his departure. Allah Never Allowed the Jews to even put him on the cross. No for Allah Defends His Messengers so well and Protects them in a way that amazes everyone. Abandoning him to be crucified and die on the cross is demeaning to Allah as a Creator. Like Allah Cannt Protect, let us assume the only son, from his enemies.
Any way, Jesus was never crucified but raised to Allah alive. He is to return to earth when the Day After approaches and this will be one of the major signs of the Day after.
Shamms u even confused me more, look at the underlined part of the verse, is he son of man, or son of god?? let me know pls.
Peace Muslimah......
Jesus Christ is the "son of man" because he was born of a woman, in a physical body. He is the "son of God" because it was the Holy Ghost that placed the baby in Mary's womb. Not through any sexual means. But like Umm stated before, by YHWH allowing it to be so, and it was. Because of these two actions, Christ is both son of man, and son of God. I hope you are no longer confused Muslimah.
Don, take a look at Faris' signature quote taken from the Qur'an 3:85:
"And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers."
To get the full message, you should read from verse 81 to verse 91. That makes it clear that "people of the Book" won't be accepted unless they turn to Islam. I'm sure if I'm wrong, someone will step in and correct me. But according to the above verse, I don't believe I am.
Shamms
Penalty of converting to Christianity - Don Singleton - 03-29-2006
Quote:Thank u so much Shamms for clarifying this point. This is a deteminant point in Islamic teachings.
Jesus is a miracle on the whole, starting from the day he was born to a virgin woman who was called in Quran the purest woman on earth. She was so much honored and respected in Quran through a whole chapter on her name.
<b>I will agree that Jesus is a unique miracle. There were many Prophets, including Muhammed, but none of them, other than Jesus were born to a virgin woman who was called in the Quran the purest woman on earth. The distinction is that Jesus was not the son of a man (Joseph), but was the Son of God. God spoke through many messengers/prophets, but only once did he place his own seed in the womb of a virgin, so that his Son might be born on earth, there to give his own life for the sins of all.</b>
Quote:Till the day of his departure. Allah Never Allowed the Jews to even put him on the cross. No for Allah Defends His Messengers so well and Protects them in a way that amazes everyone.
<b>I agree that he protected Jesus Till the day of his departure. But on the day Jesus died, he did die on the cross, and was buried, and resurected from the grave.</b>
Quote:Abandoning him to be crucified and die on the cross is demeaning to Allah as a Creator. Like Allah Cannt Protect, let us assume the only son, from his enemies.
<b>Cricifixion is not a pleasant way to die, but that was the entire reason he was sent to Earth. As John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."</b>
Quote:Any way, Jesus was never crucified but raised to Allah alive. He is to return to earth when the Day After approaches and this will be one of the major signs of the Day after.
<b>He was crucified, and buried, but he was raised from the dead by God. I agree that he was raised to Allah alive, after the Resurection.</b>
Quote:Shamms u even confused me more, look at the underlined part of the verse, is he son of man, or son of god?? let me know pls.
<b>He is the Son of God, sent to earth to be a man without sin, and therefore some call him the Son of Man, because he died so that all mankind, that believeth in him, can have eternal life</b>