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MOTHER TERESA - of those whose deeds have been in vain - Mahasvapna - 04-08-2006
Quote:What is the fruitition? To believe that God ate and went to the toilet? This is what she is calling to. Surely even you have passed this falacy? Her works are a means to an end. And that is to call people to believe that Jesus is God or part thereof. And this is calling people to the fire. She has done them no favor.
Also, you do not know what her heart was, you have only words.
She has said by her words "Jesus is My GOD". And she has trod this path all her life. Her deeds as we all know were to call people away from the one true God. And what can be worse than this? To call people to the hellfire. We can only judge by what we see and by the revalations we are given.
Do you have a clear understanding of what the christian belief in Christ is?
I will not say that one or the other is correct. Obviously it would not matter. However, understand what most christians believe to be the reason why they worship Jesus, or appear to.
Jesus was supposed to be the incarnation of God - the living avatar of God, as it were. They believe that the seed that was given to Mary's womb was no less than God himself. Certainly this is within God's power. Some here have said that they do not believe that Jesus was Crucified - I was not there, so i do not know, but would God have been so vulnerable? On the other hand, the Gospel of Judas, which may or may not be valid, perhaps we shall see, suggests that the crucifixtion was arranged by Jesus himself, in collaboration with the man normally portrayed as the betrayer, Judas Iscariot.
This much is a bit to speculative for now. I see a repetition of the same statement, that we should put no other beside the Lord, but do the Jewish not have many names for God? Do you yourself believe 'allah' to be the one and only title for God? If you call a rose a flower, does it not have two names? They are both valid, but they are labels for two aspects of what a Rose is. Jesus is not beside God, Jesus is the extension of God, the physical representation. After his ascent to heaven, he was rejoined with God.
I realize that the Islamic view is that Jesus was but another prophet, but if from one's own point of view, one truly loves no other but god - simply recognizing the many spledors of God and adoring them both together and apart - then in the heart, one has not set anything beside the Lord in worship.
I would say that it is certainly true that many christians have a literal view of the relationship between God and Jesus. While I will not cast judgement on those in terms of their hereafter, such a view is rather simple. Clearly there are many translations and many interpretations of the verses of the Qu'ran, are there not? Do you believe that your own interpretations are correct, or are there other schools of thought within Islam as a whole? Are only those who think as <b>you</b> do destined for reward in the afterlife?
If one is to truly discern between the work of the Lord and the work of evil - whatever your interpretation may be of what that is - one must know the truth in the heart.
Surely the judgement of God is a matter of the true heart of the faithful, rather than the traditions associated with whatever religion they claim to have. Just as in Islam, you may speak to many christians and get many different views on their relationship to Christ or God.
Also, while many in the world of the living may deify other men or women, and may give them whatever glory they may - this does not mean that the individual themself does anything to purposefully attract such attention. Surely all of the prophets are held in even greater esteem, though i doubt they had the hubris you seem to attribute to those glorified by others.
namaste
Mahasvapna
MOTHER TERESA - of those whose deeds have been in vain - Faris_Mee - 04-09-2006
Quote:Are there any other translations of this verse? The meaning would seem obvious, but surely it isn't. Is it the Islamic belief that essentially those born, for whatever reason, without the ability to practice Islam - for while this verse seems to mention the deaf and the dumb, it seems that the message is geared towards indicating all those who for any reason are physically, perhaps mentally, disabled in a way that prevents them from grasping and practicing the wisdom of Islam - that these people are fated to hell because of this physical flaw alone?
The implication seems to be then that we are all decided, either heaven or hell, when we are born. That no act of free will can change this. Or at least it implies that some are created and live a life for no other purpose than to feed the fire. Surely this cannot be the will of a loving God.
I harbor no assumptions. Is there another understanding of this verse?
If this life is a test, how can one pass who has been designed to fail? If we are to be unattached from others, if only Allah shall matter to one in life, then how can one person pay for the sins or perhaps simply the genetic flaws, of another?
I do not believe in contradictions.
Namaste,
Mahasvapna
:scratch: Say what?
Here is...the most in depth translation around;
<b>20. O you who believe! Obey Allâh and His Messenger, and turn not away from him (i.e. Messenger Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) while you are hearing.</b>
21. And be not like those who say: "We have heard," but they hear not.
22. Verily! The worst of (moving) living creatures with Allâh are the deaf and the dumb, who understand not (i.e. the disbelievers).
23. Had Allâh known of any good in them, He would indeed have made them listen; and even if He had made them listen, they would but have turned away with aversion (to the truth).
I think you haven't considered the verses enough. That's all. Especially #21.
More later.
MOTHER TERESA - of those whose deeds have been in vain - naseeha - 04-09-2006
jazaakallah khair faris..
Some ppl are intent upon quoting verses in isolation and jumping to conclusions... not in totality.... Something similar to this happened in another thread with brother anyabwile... subhanallah....
anyways maha you can see the versed that faris quoted here...
http://www.quraan.com/index.aspx?tabindex=1&tabid=27&bid=8
http://www.quraan.com/index.aspx?tabindex=1&tabid=26&bid=8
yahdiikumullah
naseeha
MOTHER TERESA - of those whose deeds have been in vain - Muslimah - 04-09-2006
Bismillah
No Mahasvapna, we are here to make choices and those choices we pay for other wise you would be saying Allah (may Allah Forgive me) is a tyrant. Allah Does not force us to believe or disbelieve. Allah Told us many time we should believe in Allah and only Allah, Sent us Messengers and Prophet. BUt Allah's Knowledge is a different subject.
Try looking here, u actually reminded me that Insh a Allah to continue filling on that thread, but till then, u will Insh a Allah find something:
http://www.islamsms.com/bb//index.php?showtopic=3280&hl=
MOTHER TERESA - of those whose deeds have been in vain - Faris_Mee - 04-09-2006
<b> <i> Do you have a clear understanding of what the christian belief in Christ is?</i></b>
I will not say that one or the other is correct. Obviously it would not matter. However, understand what most christians believe to be the reason why they worship Jesus, or appear to.
This question is taking us away from the original intent of the thread.
I'll converse with you Mahasvapna in another section... in_sha_Allah (If Allah so wills).