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The Messiah - according to the Jews - Curious Christian - 06-01-2006
I appreciate the discussion.
I think we have to agree to disagree. I see no fault with my answers. It is a fact that much of the OT is metaphorical. If you don't accept that fact than obviously my arguements won't find purchase in your soil (metaphor - no pun intended).
As greatly as you believe the Quran is without error I believe the Bible is without error.
Why not focus on the prophecies that have been fullfilled?
These are prophecies which were fulfilled about 2500 years ago by the destruction of the ancient kingdoms of Babylon and Nineveh, which was the Assyrian capital at that time. According to the Bible, these empires were destroyed because they had sought to destroy the Holy Land of Israel and the people of Israel (the Jews).
Bible passage: Isaiah 13:19
<b>Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC</b>
Fulfilled: 539 BC
<i>Isaiah 13:19</i>
Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms, the glory of the Babylonians' pride, will be overthrown by God like Sodom and Gomorrah.
In Isaiah 13:19, the prophet said Babylon would be overthrown, permanently. History confirms that when Cyrus conquered Babylon in 539 BC, it never again rose to power as an empire. Before the time of Cyrus, however, Babylon had been defeated by the Assyrian Empire but was able to recover and later conquer the Assyrian Empire. However, like Isaiah said 2700 years ago, the Babylonian Empire never recovered from Cyrus' conquest.
Bible passage: Nahum 3:19
<b>Written: perhaps 614 BC</b>
<i>Nahum 1:14</i>
The Lord has given a command concerning you, [Nineveh]: "You will have no descendants to bear your name. I will destroy the carved images and cast idols that are in the temple of your gods. I will prepare your grave, for you are vile."
Fulfilled: 612 BCIn Nahum 3:19 (and 1:9), the prophet said that Nineveh, which was the Assyrian Empire's capital and perhaps the most powerful city of the ancient world, would suffer a wound that would never heal. In 612 BC (about 2600 years ago), a coalition of Babylonians, Scythians and Medes conquered the heavily fortified city. According to the Bible, Nineveh was to be punished for the empire's inhumane treatment of Israel. It is unknown as to when Nahum delivered this prophecy - some scholars speculate that it was delivered a few years before the conquest. But, it is known that Nahum was correct - Nineveh and the Assyrian empire never did recover from their defeat. (Incidentally, the Assyrian empire had conquered Babylon many years beforehand, but Babylon was able to recover from that defeat).
Or Jesus predicting the destruction of the temple?
<i>Matthew 24:1-2</i>
Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."
In Matthew 24:1-2, Jesus said that the Temple would be destroyed. The Temple was destroyed about 40 years after Jesus was crucified by the Romans. In 70 AD, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and killed an estimated 1.1 million Jews. During the destruction, fire was set to the Temple. The fire caused the gold-leaf ornamentation on the Temple ceiling to melt. The melting gold flowed down the walls and settled into crevices within the stones. The Romans pried apart the stones to remove the gold. This fulfilled Jesus' prophecy that not one stone would be left standing on another.
What about Israel being a wasteland?
<i>Deuteronomy 29:23</i>
The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and sulfur--nothing planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the Lord overthrew in fierce anger.
In Deuteronomy 29:23, the Bible said Israel would become a wasteland. This prophecy certainly was fulfilled. The land has been described many times as having been a sparsely populated wasteland, as recently as the late 1800s. American writer Mark Twain wrote this, in 1867, about the land of Israel, which at the time was called Palestine: "Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes… the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies… Palestine is desolate and unlovely… It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land." - from Mark Twain's Innocents Abroad.
Zechariah even prophisied that Jesus would be betrayed for silver...
<i>Zechariah 11:12-13</i>
I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potter"--the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter.
THAT WAS OVER 500 years before Christ.
I could go on and on......
The Messiah - according to the Jews - wel_mel_2 - 06-01-2006
Quote:I appreciate the discussion.
I think we have to agree to disagree.
maybe because am not convinced with your answers because they are merely copy and paste from the internet, where i was looking for your own efforts to dig in your bible and other sources to come up with your own conclusion.
However, I do appreciate the discussion too. You have shown me your viewpoint and I did the same. No offense.
Salam
Wael.
The Messiah - according to the Jews - Curious Christian - 06-01-2006
Quote:maybe because am not convinced with your answers because they are merely copy and paste from the internet, where i was looking for your own efforts to dig in your bible and other sources to come up with your own conclusion.
However, I do appreciate the discussion too. You have shown me your viewpoint and I did the same. No offense.
Salam
Wael.
Haha. If I had $1 for everytime somebody copied and pasted something on this site I'd be a rich man.
<b>ALL of my answers to your original question were not copy and paste.</b> The article in the other thread WAS copy and paste and I even said that it was an article by an atheist.
The questions about the Quran were copy and paste. I don't have a copy of the Quran and don't know much about it. I do know that many believe that the Quran has contradictions, historical and scientific problems. You asked me about supposed unfullfilled prophecy in the Bible. I asked you about supposed unfullfilled prophecy in the Quran. What does it matter if my questions were based on another website? They are still legitmate questions. Have you never researched something on the internet?
The bottom line is this. My answers to your specific questions about unfullfilled prophecy in the bible came from MY understanding and My research done while I was home and had MY bible laid out in front of me.
I'll admit that my questions about the Quran were of the copy and paste variety. They are still valid questions though so I guess I fail to see your point.
The Messiah - according to the Jews - wel_mel_2 - 06-01-2006
Bismillah:
Quote:Haha. If I had $1 for everytime somebody copied and pasted something on this site I'd be a rich man.
<b>ALL of my answers to your original question were not copy and paste.</b> The article in the other thread WAS copy and paste and I even said that it was an article by an atheist.
The questions about the Quran were copy and paste. I don't have a copy of the Quran and don't know much about it. I do know that many believe that the Quran has contradictions, historical and scientific problems.
Yes actually i was objecting those copy and paste questions which shows that you just trying to prove the Qur'an wrong. Yet until this moment, no contradiction, historical or single scientific errors were found in the Qur'an. Alhamdulelah. Of course am aware of certain claims that the Qur’an contains contradiction and scientific errors, but believe me these verses are either misunderstood, misquoted or quoted without its context to mislead people.
So its better for you to get copy of the Qur’an. and by the way if you need I can send you one copy insha’Allah. You may PM me if interested.
i also sometimes copy and paste sometimes from the net, but not attack questions without verifying the source.
Quote:The bottom line is this. My answers to your specific questions about unfullfilled prophecy in the bible came from MY understanding and My research done while I was home and had MY bible laid out in front of me.
ok i believe you.
Quote:I'll admit that my questions about the Quran were of the copy and paste variety. They are still valid questions though so I guess I fail to see your point.
i've given you the answers already, but i guess you are not satisfied. insha'Allah will comment on your last post later. now its 4:00AM and i am going to do my prayer.
take care
Salam
Wael
The Messiah - according to the Jews - Curious Christian - 06-01-2006
Quote:ok i believe you.
i've given you the answers already, but i guess you are not satisfied. insha'Allah will comment on your last post later. now its 4:00AM and i am going to do my prayer.
take care
Salam
Wael
I got your answers and are satisfied....don't worry about posting any further about those particular questions unless you want to.
The Messiah - according to the Jews - PUPPET - 06-06-2006
Could this MEssiah Perhaps be AL- Dajjal, who will be from among the Jews. Coz the Signs quoted from the first post are close to what Islam teaches before the Last days innit
<b>Hadith - Abu Dawood #4283, Narrated Abdullah ibn Busr </b>
The Prophet said: The time between the great war and the conquest of the city (Constantinople) will be six years, and the Dajjal (Antichrist) will come forth in the seventh
The Messiah - according to the Jews - Curious Christian - 06-06-2006
Quote:Could this MEssiah Perhaps be AL- Dajjal, who will be from among the Jews. Coz the Signs quoted from the first post are close to what Islam teaches before the Last days innit
<b>Hadith - Abu Dawood #4283, Narrated Abdullah ibn Busr </b>
The Prophet said: The time between the great war and the conquest of the city (Constantinople) will be six years, and the Dajjal (Antichrist) will come forth in the seventh
No. You say "Dajjal (Antichrist)". For there to be an <b>ANTI</b>-Christ wouldn't there have to be a Christ?
The Messiah - according to the Jews - PUPPET - 06-07-2006
Quote:No. You say "Dajjal (Antichrist)". For there to be an <b>ANTI</b>-Christ wouldn't there have to be a Christ?
100% correct. Bro ya Stating the obvious, but I see wot u tryin to imply, that if there is mention of Christ then he must be god however
If by Christ you mean Jesus / Isa ! then yeah There is a Christ
Muslims do not believe that /Jesus/Isa [Alayhis salaam] is god, neither do we believe him being a son to god. He is the messenger, Prophet and slave of Allah.
As Christ (Jesus/Isa) will be the only person able to Kill the Anti-christ.
Muslims belive Jesus be commin back, his time is close speculates some....
Ur Born again Christian. The lady sittin opposite me , my counter part is born again
So is Ben, Ben is in Campus with me. You remind me of him, the way u type/speak