+- Forums (https://bb.islamsms.com)
+-- Forum: ENGLISH (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Discussion of Beliefs (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: I've been can't find this in the Quran. (/showthread.php?tid=7126)
Pages:
1
2
I've been can't find this in the Quran. - wel_mel_2 - 11-04-2009
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
<b>AlShamms</b>
Quote:Well in terms of the King James, the first "version" was released in 1611, in the language of the day. An example of a verse looks like this:
John 3:16
(16) For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.
As time went on, that type of language became archaic so the NKJV was produced. An example of a verse looks like this:
John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
I guess sister Muslimah was referring to “<b>versions</b>” where certain words, phrases and even whole books were expunged from other versions or added to a new version etc... she was not talking about simplifying the KJV language.
Quote:While the nuances in the english language change, those changes do not change the meaning of the verse.
That was a bit misleading, take for instance the following verse:
Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up <b>his Son Jesus</b>
, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. (<b>King James Version</b>)
Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up <b>His Servant Jesus</b>
, sent Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities. (<b>New King James Version</b>)
Now we are left with the following options.
1- Either one of these versions is wrong in this quotation. Or,,,
2- both terms (son and servant) are synonymous and in this case you should not insist that Jesus is the literal son of God.
Salam
Wael.
I've been can't find this in the Quran. - AlShamms - 11-04-2009
Quote:Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
<b>AlShamms</b>
I guess sister Muslimah was referring to “<b>versions</b>” where certain words, phrases and even whole books were expunged from other versions or added to a new version etc... she was not talking about simplifying the KJV language.
That was a bit misleading, take for instance the following verse:
Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up <b>his Son Jesus</b>
, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. (<b>King James Version</b>)
Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up <b>His Servant Jesus</b>
, sent Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities. (<b>New King James Version</b>)
Now we are left with the following options.
1- Either one of these versions is wrong in this quotation. Or,,,
2- both terms (son and servant) are synonymous and in this case you should not insist that Jesus is the literal son of God.
Salam
Wael.
A simple matter to prove, what says the original greek text these translations are taken from? In the greek text, the word
G3816
παῖς
pais
can be translated both son and servant. While "son" is the more common rendering, servant is correct also.
I've been can't find this in the Quran. - wel_mel_2 - 11-04-2009
Quote:A simple matter to prove, what says the original greek text these translations are taken from? In the greek text, the word
G3816
παῖς
pais
can be translated both son and servant. While "son" is the more common rendering, servant is correct also.
Although it is more common for Christians to say '<i>SON</i>', almost ALL the available Bible versions translated this word as '<b>Servant</b>'
Anyway, this was just an example that might mislead people. you know well that the bulk of Christians don't bother about what the Greek word was, neither do christian leaders explain these facts in details to their congregations, and from here comes the division.
PLUS... the difference between Bible versions is obvious. i can write a whole thread about this matter. just remember the last 12 verses of mark that was thrown out by the RSV (1952), or the 7 books of the Catholics which you consider them as a fabrication, or the word 'begotten' that was also removed in almost all modern translations, or 1John 5:7 that was removed also by several groups, and the JWs version, or the living Bible etc... just compare them closely and you will never say that they are the same.
Salam
Wael.
I've been can't find this in the Quran. - AlShamms - 11-05-2009
So we've gotten off the main topic of what the Qur'an says to the Bible and translations....again. I think it's interesting how this always happens. Whenever the discussion comes up about the wording or writing in the Qur'an, someone always begins to finger point and bring up what they believe to be differences in the Bible, Wael especially. It's as if this deflecting is an automatic defensive response. If this is a site where non-muslims can come to learn about Islam, why then can't we have an open discussion about Islamic topics without getting sidetracked by topics that have no bearing on the original subject and better focus on presenting Islam in a clear light? I notice time was taken up discussing various translations of the Bible produced by one group or another for one reason or another, but no time to answer my questions.
Surah 5:14 says: "they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them." According to Islam, Muhammad and Qur'an were sent to the Christians as well. Is this the "good part of the message" that Christians abandoned? Or is this speaking of parts of the gospel? If it is speaking about the gospel, which are the parts Christians have abandoned?
Surah 2:87-90 says: "And when there came to them (the Jews), a Book (this Quran) from Allah confirming what is with them [the Torah and the Gospel]" again this seems aimed at the Jews, not Jews AND Christians.
Neither of these questions were addressed.
I've been can't find this in the Quran. - wel_mel_2 - 11-07-2009
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
<b>'AlShamms' </b>
Quote:So we've gotten off the main topic of what the Qur'an says to the Bible and translations....again. I think it's interesting how this always happens. Whenever the discussion comes up about the wording or writing in the Qur'an, someone always begins to finger point and bring up what they believe to be differences in the Bible, Wael especially.
I am sorry for that, I just had to clarify a false statement in your post #8 (i.e. <i>While the nuances in the english language change, those changes do not change the meaning of the verse</i>.)
Quote:I notice time was taken up discussing various translations of the Bible produced by one group or another for one reason or another, but no time to answer my questions.
Don't worry, we were coming to that. Here we go.
Quote:Surah 5:14 says: "they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them." According to Islam, Muhammad and Qur'an were sent to the Christians as well. Is this the "good part of the message" that Christians abandoned? Or is this speaking of parts of the gospel? If it is speaking about the gospel, which are the parts Christians have abandoned?
The problem here is that you have '<i>red</i>' or '<i>saw</i>' that verse from the middle, you don't even know who are 'they' that the verse is referring to. This verse is addressing the Children of Israel, who made a commitment with God to establish the regular prayers, pay the prescribed charity, to believe in Allah's messengers (<b>All of them including Muhammad PBUH</b>) and to support and honor them, and in that case they will be admitted to paradise (read the whole verses of 13 and 14). However, they've broken this covenant and as a result their hearts were hardened and they started to sin against God in several ways:
1- they start to misuse the Scriptures by taken words, verses etc out of their right meaning to apply to them things for which they were never meant.
2- in doing that, they gradually forgot a part of the original message that was sent to them, including that Muhammad PBUH is mentioned as the last prophet in their Scriptures (<b>Qur'an 7:157-158 in this verse, Allah says that Muhammad PBUH is also mentioned in the Injee</b>l)
3- they invented '<i>new</i>' deceits to support old ones etc...
Quote:Surah 2:87-90 says: "And when there came to them (the Jews), a Book (this Quran) from Allah confirming what is with them [the Torah and the Gospel]" again this seems aimed at the Jews, not Jews AND Christians.
If you read the whole verses (i.e. 87 to 90) you will notice that Allah is addressing both, the Jews and the Christians, the followes of Moses and Jesus (<b>The People of the Book</b>). and below are more verses for your reference.
“<b>O People of the Book! (Jews and Christians) there has come to you Our Messenger, revealing to you much that you used to hide in the Book...
</b>” Qur'an 5:15
here the Qur'an is telling us that both, the Jews and the Christians used to hide or conceal the truth of Allah's message in their own scriptures.
“<b>Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the Guidance, after We have made it clear for the people of the Book,--on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse, except those who repent and make amends and openly declares (The Truth): to them I turn; for I am Oft-Returning, Most Merciful
</b>” Qur'an 2:159-160
“<b>And remember Allah took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchase with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made
</b>." Qur'an 3:187
Salam
Wael.