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Wife Punishment - AlShamms - 11-16-2010
I find the contrast between Islam allowing men to beat their wives and the Bible's instruction on how the wife should be treated to be very interesting:
Ephesians 5:25-33
(25) Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
(26) that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
(27) so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
(28) In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
(29) For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church,
(30) because we are members of his body.
(31) "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."
(32) This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
(33) However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
1 Peter 3:7
(7) Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
The Christian man is commanded to love his wife like he loves his own self and treat her as well as he treats himself. So too, the wife is commanded to respect her husband.
Wife Punishment - wel_mel_2 - 11-16-2010
Assalamo Alikum:
1- Wife-beating in Islam is described for those women who are disobedient, extremely rude to their husbands and care very little for their children (NASHEZ); it is not because of sex refusal as reep indicates. It is true that wives are commanded to respond to their husbands call regarding this matter, but husbands on the other hands are not ordered anywhere to ‘rape’ them if they refused! Plus, the Prophet Muhammad PBUH explained that if we must put things right, we may beat them so lightly with Miswak (i.e. natural tooth brush which is in the size of a pencil, just to scare them off and not to cause any injury or to leave any mark).
2- In the Bible man was created to rule over women and she was made to be subject to him, therefore why can’t he discipline her sometimes? If rulers like King David had the right to even kill whomever he wishes and was blessed by God, then why would God object beating lightly the wives if they’ve done something really bad?
3- Why is it so hard for you to accept ‘wife-beating’ as described in Islam and tolerate the punishment of wives in the Bible? Don’t you know that if 2 men were fighting together and the wife of one of them came forward to defend her husband and grabbed the other man’s private part, her hands should be cut off? What about the punishment of whores according to the Bible? It is burning with fire. Why don’t we make a big deal about these punishments first!
4- The Bible gives a list of punishments for some serious offence, like killing, attacking one’s parents, kidnapping, cursing parents, hitting others with stones, beating servants etc. the punishment prescribed is death. However, we don’t see in this list any punishment for ‘wife beating’! Do you know why? Because if you abuse a girl according to the Bible and raped her (rape means violent assault which involve beating of course), his punishment is to marry her and never divorce her as long as he remains alive. So where is the prohibition of ‘wife beating’ in the Bible? if Reep won’t become a Muslim and prepared to be thrown in Hellfire because of the ‘wife-beating’ thing, then it is more sensible to leave the teaching of the Bible altogether because in it you are forced to marry your rapist.
5- Didn’t Jesus ever hear of any incident where one wife was beaten during his ministry? Why can’t we find a word from the master concerning the prohibition of wife beating?
6- In another verse in the Bible we are told to love our wives even though they are adulteresses as God loves the Israelites. If that’s the case, then husbands should really discipline those disobedient wives in the same manner how God has punished the Jews for their disobedience, even though He loves them!
As regards to loving wives in Islam, this would require a never ending thread where you guys would be surprised and keen to learn more about how one should love and respect his wife.
I hope this made some sense
Salam
Wael.
Wife Punishment - reepicheep - 11-17-2010
Wel_mel_2 wrote:
> Wife-beating in Islam is described for those women who are
> disobedient...it is not because of sex refusal as reep indicates.
I indicated no such thing. I was quoting the muslim scholar in the video. If you disagree with him, then take it up with him and not with me.
****************
Wel_mel_2, I find it interesting that you constantly use the bible to prove that the behavior of muslims is correct. In this case, you are claiming that, since the bible teaches that Christian men are allowed to beat and rape their wives, then obviously muslim husbands are allowed to beat and rape their wives, too.
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the Christian Triune God thinks it is acceptable for Christian husbands to beat and rape their wives (I don't for a second believe that, but let's assume it is true). All that proves is that both Islam and Christianity are evil religions. I don't see how you, as a muslim, can justify performing evil acts by claiming that non-muslims perform those same evil acts, so therefore the evil acts must be pleasing to Allah.
In any case, the bible verses quoted by AlShamms clearly give the Christian view on marriage. Read them again, and show us where beatings and rape are mentioned.
Wife Punishment - Muslimah - 11-17-2010
Bismillah
I m so surprised as to how people, just to continue maintaining their own position and do not feel at fault, overlook and twist facts.
I will stop here, and I assume the two members are smart enought to get my point. If not, I m willing to explain.
Wife Punishment - wel_mel_2 - 11-17-2010
Assalamo Alikum,
Quote:Wel_mel_2, I find it interesting that you constantly use the bible to prove that the behavior of muslims is correct. In this case, you are claiming that, since the bible teaches that Christian men are allowed to beat and rape their wives, then obviously muslim husbands are allowed to beat and rape their wives, too.I did not indicate that at all, I show you what the Bible teaches so that you can reflect, care less about the Islamic teaching and try to solve your problems before going beyond that.
Quote:Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the Christian Triune God thinks it is acceptable for Christian husbands to beat and rape their wives (I don't for a second believe that, but let's assume it is true). All that proves is that both Islam and Christianity are evil religions. I don't see how you, as a muslim, can justify performing evil acts by claiming that non-muslims perform those same evil acts, so therefore the evil acts must be pleasing to Allah.To sum up what I said earlier in case you did not get the point: rape in Islam is not allowed, beating in Islam is NOT allowed unless it is done with Miswak as the prophet teaches to set things right, beating in Christianity is allowed (love your wives as God love the Israelites, but see how God punishes those whom He love), rape in Christianity is not allowed, however if you raped someone she is forced to marry her rapist and never get a divorce. Now you compare which way is the evil one.
Quote:In any case, the bible verses quoted by AlShamms clearly give the Christian view on marriage. Read them again, and show us where beatings and rape are mentioned.Why don't you investigate the verses I quoted first and tell me whether wife beating is NOT permitted in the Bible? (references are ready in case you are not familiar with the stories given in my previous post).
Salam
Wael
Wife Punishment - wel_mel_2 - 11-17-2010
Assalamo Alikum,
Quote:BismillahYeah I am also thinking to stop here
I m so surprised as to how people, just to continue maintaining their own position and do not feel at fault, overlook and twist facts.
I will stop here, and I assume the two members are smart enought to get my point. If not, I m willing to explain.
<_<
Wife Punishment - reepicheep - 11-20-2010
Let's get back on topic, which is the video AlShamms posted with this thread. And, let's deal with issues one at a time.
ISSUE ONE: When is a husband permitted to beat his wife?
According to the video:
"The honoring of the wife in islam is also evident in the fact that the punishment of beatings is permissible in one case only: when she refuses to sleep with him. He should begin with admonishments and threats."
QUESTION ONE: Is this quotation an accurate description of sharia law, in regards to when a husband is permitted to beat his wife?
Wife Punishment - wel_mel_2 - 11-22-2010
Assalamo Alikum,
Quote:Let's get back on topic, which is the video AlShamms posted with this thread. And, let's deal with issues one at a time.I honestly haven't seen the video and didn’t even know who the speaker was, but to end the doubts once and for all I would advise you to read what qualified scholars have said regarding this matter:
ISSUE ONE: When is a husband permitted to beat his wife?
According to the video:
"The honoring of the wife in islam is also evident in the fact that the punishment of beatings is permissible in one case only: when she refuses to sleep with him. He should begin with admonishments and threats."
QUESTION ONE: Is this quotation an accurate description of sharia law, in regards to when a husband is permitted to beat his wife?
IslamOnline.com Q&A
If you are still not convinced with that answer then I guess I won't be able to offer you anything else concerning this topic!
Salam
Wael
Wife Punishment - Muslimah - 11-22-2010
Jazakum Allah khairan Wael for your reply,
Reepi and Shamms, respecting your search. I would like to tell you, you can not take one action out of context and discuss it. As we reitereated several times, Islam is an integrated system.
In order to look for an action, you need to look at it from a global viewpoint. Like for example, a wife is entitled to ask for divorce if her husband turned his back in bed.
Let me suggest something.
Islam is not about wife beating, chopping hands, or head, or stoning, or slavery.
Islam is about the Oneness of Allah. Are you ready to accept believing that Allah Is One, not composed of parts (icons), has no partners or associates, does not incarnate in any body, thing???
This is what Islam is!?
Wife Punishment - AlShamms - 11-23-2010
Good morning.
This has been an interesting thread.
Wael, the entire purpose of this posting was to discuss "wife punishment" within the confines of the video's speaker. How can you comment on a topic you haven't heard? Then you obfuscate by trying to deflect to the bible (a common tactic). Finally you offer up what "qualified" scholars have said. Which was the entire purpose of this thread, to see if the cleric in the video was indeed a "qualified scholar" and if what he was saying was correct. To which, Muslimah stated she believed he was.
Muslimah, I understand your duty as a musliminah is to call others to your religion, I have a similar mandate as a Christian. But you ask an interesting question...Am I ready to accept believing allah is one, not composed of parts, has no partners or associates and does not incarnate in a body. To which I have to answer no. But that's a conversation we've had before and it's off topic. You stated Islam is an integrated system and I believe that's its flaw. The fact that Islam allows for wife beating, does not view unconsentual sex between a husband and wife as rape are evidence that this religion originated with man to fulfill man's desires.
If you love your wife like you love your own body...why would you ever hit her?