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A Comparison - wel_mel_2 - 05-14-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Sister Muslimah, believe me you will never get this concepot right…
FHC or St John makes us understand that Jesus is the Creator of this universe and everything in this world was created by him. but at the same time, when we listen to what Jesus hismself said, we read verses like "I CAN OF MY OWN SELF DO NOTHING", But when we show our Christian friends such verses, they say that this is not <b>Jesus the God who is talking, it is Jesus the human</b>. and so the circle goes
, <b>when they desire for him to be God, they choose selected verses were not even quoted by Jesus and then say "<i>see he is God</i>" </b>, <b>but when he declares something about himself, they say this is Jesus the man/human talking</b>, and when you ask them where did he ever say <b>ANYWHERE</b> in the Bible that he have 2 natures, we get no answer or some ambiguous statements quoted by someone else and not by the master himself <b>who should know and reveal his nature in clear manner to his people to avoid this kind of confusion. </b>
Until now FHC, I cannot find any clear statement from Jesus himself where he say I am the Creator God, worship me, I am God and human at the same time or any similar declaration.
Salam
Wael.
A Comparison - Muslimah - 05-14-2007
Bismillah
as salam alykom ya Wael :)
I fully understand what u mean, and i guess FHC and any other Nasarni on the site does understand what i mean. However, as usual FHC evades the answer by using bible verses, although my question was very simple and it only needs yes or no. Did he create anything / anyone right in front of the nakes eyes of people like he revived the dead and healed the leprosy.. No he didnt. Very simple and short. But they dont want to see because they are afraid to face the truth. That he is simply the devotee of Allah The Only True Deity Worthy to worship and that he is going to free himself on the Day After of all what they alleged to him. Alhamdulelah.
La ilaha ila Allah, Mohamedun Rasullah and Eassa is the messenger and prophet of Allah.
A Comparison - wel_mel_2 - 05-15-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo ALikum.
Quote:Bismillah
as salam alykom ya Wael :)
I fully understand what u mean, and i guess FHC and any other Nasarni on the site does understand what i mean. However, as usual FHC evades the answer by using bible verses, although my question was very simple and it only needs yes or no. Did he create anything / anyone right in front of the nakes eyes of people like he revived the dead and healed the leprosy.. No he didnt. Very simple and short. But they dont want to see because they are afraid to face the truth. That he is simply the devotee of Allah The Only True Deity Worthy to worship and that he is going to free himself on the Day After of all what they alleged to him. Alhamdulelah.
La ilaha ila Allah, Mohamedun Rasullah and Eassa is the messenger and prophet of Allah.
You are right sister, Jesus pbuh never created anything infront of his people, but according to the Bible, he did raise the dead, heal the lepers and performed other miracles infront of many people, but the question is,<b> will these miracles make him God</b>?... definitely not, otherwise we will have to ask ourselves many questions, like for example, how about Ezekiel who is said to have <b>raised many more dead bodies than Jesus ever did</b>. Ezekiel is said to have <b>raised a whole city from the dead</b> (Ezekiel 37:1-9)!! Will the Christians consider Ezekiel to be God too? No they will not.
Christians always say “<i>can anyone raise the dead but God</i>”? and so they conclude that Jesus is God because he revived the dead. Subhan Allah, but if we are looking for Godly powers and miracles to prove such thing, then we should appreciate the work of Joshua who is said to have <b>stopped the sun and moon for one whole day</b>: (Joshua 10:12-13). Can anyone but God Almighty do this? Will the Christians consider Joshua to be God? No they will not.
Again and again we read in the Bible that Elisha have <b>raised the dead, resurrected himself, healed a leper, fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn, and healed a blind man.</b> Will the Christians consider Elisha to be God? No they will not.
Finally my dear sister Muslimah and FHC, Jesus himself said in the Bible, loud and clear that all the miracles that he performed were not his own, but they were God's work.
La ilaha ila Allah, Mohamedun Rasullah and Eassa is the messenger and prophet of Allah.
Quote:Acts 2:22 "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, <b>a man </b> approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, <b>which God did by him </b> in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know"
Salam
Wael.
A Comparison - Faith Hope Charity - 05-15-2007
May the Peace of Jesus Christ - True God & True Man - Alpha & Omega - be with you!
This has turned into the blind leading the blind.
It's obvious my comments aren't welcome here.
I'll leave you two to it.
God bless.
A Comparison - wel_mel_2 - 05-15-2007
Bismillah:
Quote:May the Peace of Jesus Christ - True God & True Man - Alpha & Omega - be with you!
This has turned into the blind leading the blind.
It's obvious my comments aren't welcome here.
I'll leave you two to it.
God bless.
Your comments are most welcome here FHC, sister Muslimah asked you a very simple and straight forward question, yet you have gone so far by quoting John 1:1 which has nothing to do with the question.
Did Jesus create anything <b>INFRONT OF THE PEOPLE</b>?
Salam
Wael.
A Comparison - Faith Hope Charity - 05-15-2007
In the Name of God - Creator Redeemer Sanctifer.
May the Peace of Our Lord & Savoir, Jesus Christ, be with you.
Quote:Your comments are most welcome here FHC
Are you kidding me? They get torn to shreds! Why don't you just ask each other questions relating to Christianity? Actually, if you've already made up your minds about the supposed right answer, why bother ask at all?
Quote:sister Muslimah asked you a very simple and straight forward question, yet you have gone so far by quoting John 1:1 which has nothing to do with the question.
Go ahead & blame me, but please don't attack biblical verses for your lack of understanding.
Quote:Did Jesus create anything <b>INFRONT OF THE PEOPLE</b>?
YES!!!!!!!
Look Wael, there's no inch of the universe that Jesus Christ doesn't point to & say MINE!!! Everything that exists, exists by Him, through Him & for Him. He's God.
I can't help but include another passage from the Bible...
St Paul's Epistle to the Colossians 1:
16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities -- all things were created through him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.
19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
God (Father Son Holy Spirit) is the Creator. Everything you perceive with your external senses has Jesus Christ written all over it.
May His works be praised & honored in all places for all time. Amen.
God bless.
A Comparison - wel_mel_2 - 05-15-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:Why don't you just ask each other questions relating to Christianity?
Don’t worry, it happens many times, but you always jump into the discussion to prove me wrong just because am using the Bible, and why I can’t answer a question about Christianity? It is not that difficult.
Quote:Actually, if you've already made up your minds about the supposed right answer, why bother ask at all?
I am not bothered, I am only interested to get an answer to a very simple question was posed by sister Muslimah, but I guess you did not understand the question. Ok, forget about sister Muslimah’s question for a moment (<i>if you don’t mind sister</i>), <b>does Jesus himself say</b> that I have created the universe? Is that difficult for you to answer?
Quote:Go ahead & blame me, but please don't attack biblical verses for your lack of understanding.
I did not attack any biblical verses; it seems that you get emotional again :P … I used my common sense to figure out whether Jesus is God or not following your way of reasoning, and the answer was no, he is not God and can never be. this is my own observation, you may stick to your beliefs or to what you have been told, i will never mind.. :)
Quote:Did Jesus create anything INFRONT OF THE PEOPLE?
YES!!!!!!!
Ok could you please <b>show us one incident from the Bible where he created anything infront of people</b>? I am not interested to hear what somebody else says about him.
Quote:Look Wael, there's no inch of the universe that Jesus Christ doesn't point to & say MINE!!! Everything that exists, exists by Him, through Him & for Him. He's God.
Evidence might help a lot!! Verses quoted <b>by him </b> will definitely help more…
Why can’t you be humble enough to say ‘<b>NO there isn’t any verse where Jesus himself declared that he is the creator of this universe</b>’?
Salam
Wael.
A Comparison - Muslimah - 05-19-2007
Bismillah
Jazakum Allah khairan katheeran Wael for clearing this up, however, even after clearing it up, she still used the bible universe related verse.
Im simply saying, people realised his aspect of divinity based on miracles performed in front of their own naked eyes, i.e reviving the dead, healing the leprosy..etc. As divine being, is mainly advantaged with the capability to create, to further confirm, stress, and underline his divinity, there must have been an incident right in front of people's eyes while jesus was in the flesh form that he created anything, just anything at all, to have people sure that much of his divinity. But he didnt.
FHC, are u aware that during the time of Mussa ordinary people were comannded by Allah to hit a dead person with the bones of a certain cow that they slaughtered and he was revived?? common people not even Mussa prayer and peace be upon him...
A Comparison - Faith Hope Charity - 05-20-2007
Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all!
Quote:Don’t worry, it happens many times, but you always jump into the discussion to prove me wrong just because am using the Bible, and why I can’t answer a question about Christianity? It is not that difficult.
My aim is never to "prove you wrong". Consider yourself lucky. I'm doing you a favour by offering my version of Christianity. May those in the darkness see the light :D :lol: :P ;)
Quote:<b>does Jesus himself say</b> that I have created the universe? Is that difficult for you to answer?
Did God create the universe? Yes!
Is Jesus the Son of God Incarnate? Yes!
If God created the universe & Jesus is the Son of God then we can say that Jesus created the universe.
To start with, I urge you to read St John, chapters 8 & 9.
Then have a think about Jesus' actions. He communicates His Divinity in many profound ways...
When He walked on water, He showed He has authority over nature.
When He cast out demons, He showed He has authority over evil.
When He healed on the Sabbath, He showed He has authority over the Law.
When He brought Lazareth & Jarius' daughter back to life, He showed He has authority over death.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
Quote:
I did not attack any biblical verses; it seems that you get emotional again :P …
Not emotional. Just frustrated. But don't worry, I'll get over it :)
Quote:Why can’t you be humble enough to say ‘<b>NO there isn’t any verse where Jesus himself declared that he is the creator of this universe</b>’?
:lol: That wouldn't be humility, it'll be stupidity!
God bless.
A Comparison - Faith Hope Charity - 05-20-2007
May the Love of God the Father, the Grace of His only-begotten Son & the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you!
Quote:Jazakum Allah khairan katheeran Wael for clearing this up, however, even after clearing it up, she still used the bible universe related verse.
& I take it you still don't understand?
Quote:Im simply saying, people realised his aspect of divinity based on miracles performed in front of their own naked eyes, i.e reviving the dead, healing the leprosy..etc. As divine being, is mainly advantaged with the capability to create, to further confirm, stress, and underline his divinity, there must have been an incident right in front of people's eyes while jesus was in the flesh form that he created anything, just anything at all, to have people sure that much of his divinity. But he didnt.
You're starting to sound like doubting Thomas. "Blessed is he who believes without seeing".
Christ created a New Covenant. He created the Church. He created the Sacraments. He created the New Temple. He created eternal life. He created Apostles. He created children of God. He created the New Jerusalem.
When my cousin told me she's pregnant the first thing we all yelled was, "thank you Jesus!"... in other words, "thank you God for creating this baby."
I could go on forever!!!
Jesus Christ is God. He's the principle of Creation & Redemption. Alleluia!
Quote:FHC, are u aware that during the time of Mussa ordinary people were comannded by Allah to hit a dead person with the bones of a certain cow that they slaughtered and he was revived?? common people not even Mussa prayer and peace be upon him...
We don't believe in Jesus' Divinity solely based on the miracles He performed. Many others have performed miracles. The difference is Jesus performed them of His own Divine Will.
Take care & God bless.