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Ask a Shia - Muslimah - 06-28-2007
Bismillah
Quote:Thanks for welcoming me aboard sister. Is it just me, or did the forums have a different name and look not too long ago?
Mhmm, same here... Bahrain by the way.
Yes brother we changed domain name as well as skin, getting into a face lift as Lifu said once. May Allah Protect him and allow him time to come back.
BTW did u mean that Bahrain also considers shia as mushrik or u meant something else??? :conf06: just trying to be on track specially when i m in the middle of a translation MI. :)
Ask a Shia - Muslimah - 06-28-2007
Bismillah
Again let me try and solve a linguistic problem here. The word Ahl in Arbaic is used in particular to refer to the wife, as in many hadith for example when the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam is instructing a man about what to say and how to handle a situation of the intimate relation. In this regard, he refers to
For example, I will look for the exact text later on.
Idha ata ahadukm ahluh... ata here serves for initiated an intercourse, ahluh is the wife.
Ask a Shia - Hadji - 06-28-2007
Sister, I completely agree with the interpretations of both verses that you've pointed to. Yet, that is not the issue. The issue is that Karbala uses 33:33 out of context to justify some of his beliefs.
I also wish that Alfayd Alkashani, the Shi'ite scholar could've read your argument about "hadithatul ifk" verse.
Quote:BTW did u mean that Bahrain also considers shia as mushrik or u meant something else???
Actually, it's more like the other way around. Getting called a Wahabi or "the enemy" is what happens to young Sunnis with beards around there. Around 80% of Bahrain are Shi'ites.
Ask a Shia - Muslimah - 06-28-2007
Bismillah
O I understand, I thought something of this sort, but prefered not to make assumptions. So you are called a wahabi. I get really upset with those classifications. but our beloved Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam foretold this long time ago when he told us we are going to break into 76 sect or is it 73 i always get mixed up.
If this scholar cannt read brother, others Insh aAllah will come here and read, and more important Allah Is there witnessing our struggle to help others understand.
Karbala jazakum Allah khairan for replying to my post 91 wow I cannt believe we came to this number.
However, this hadeeth of whome to follow, there is another narration which i will look for and then translate Insh aAllah that also commands us to follow his companions whome he described as nujum= stars.
Hold on Insh a Allah in the evening I will do the search..
Ask a Shia - Muslimah - 06-28-2007
Bismillah
Brother Hadji, what is more improtant when scholar fail to put the Ayahs into context, is that they actually strip Quran from a major miracle which is that it applies throughout time. For example, if u see Allah in the original language Didnt specify the type of ifk. Not that Allah Couldnt or forgot waliyadhubillah. But because Allah Desires to tell us any kind of hadith ifk dont consider it as bad but rather it may come up with much good. Just as this case. usually the Ayah is revealed for a specific purpose but then how Allah Puts it makes the implied meaning sustainable. Sobahan Allah Asdaqul Qaeleen. Glory be to Allah The Most Truth Sayer among those who say.
Hope I helped. :) i feel i m on a marathon of posts.
Ask a Shia - Karbala - 06-28-2007
In His Name the Most High
SalamunAlaikum.
Wow. This is turning into one marathon as Muslimah said.
Hadith ifk has become a bit of an issue because of what Mr. AlKashani may have said. I havent got round to reading what he said yet. But allow me to provide an alternative Shia view from a more famous work the Commentary by Mir Ahmad Ali and Ayatollah Pooya Yazdi who relate about the incident in this verse:
Quote:The particular incident referred to here occurred on the return from the defensive expedition of the Bani Mustaliq in 5-6 Hijra. At one of the halts, A-isha, the Holy Prophet's wife, withdrew from the camp to cleanse herself in the nearby desert. There she lost her necklace. As it was dark there she took time to discover it. In the meantime the march was ordered. As her litter was veiled, it was not noticed that she was not in it. When she returned to the camp, she could do nothing but wait. She fell asleep. Next morning she was found by Safwan who had been left behind to pick up anything inadvertently left behind. He put her on his camel and brought her, leading the camel on foot. This episode furnished some malicious enemies of the Holy Prophet, particularly the hypocrites, with an opportunity to raise a scandalous storm in order to hurt the feelings of the Holy Prophet. The ringleader among them was the chief of the Madina hypocrites, Abdullah ibn Ubay. Mistah, her uncle, also helped him. Ibn Ubay is referred to as the man who "took on himself the lead among them" to spread the scandal.
Ali ibn abi Talib knew that it was an obvious lie (as said in verse 12), concocted to hurt the Holy Prophet, so he asked Burayrah, the maid of A-isha, to tell the mischief-makers the truth about her mistress. On Burayrah's report the scandal was diffused.
On a more personal note we never claim our scholars are immune from error. AlKashani is only a scholar and not even a very famous one. Shia dont just blindly follow any scholar in matters of Aqaid. I would personally like to read the source for myself but as I said it may take a while.
Quote:Why wouldn't you try to convert us? Isn't it an article of your faith to believe in Imamah? From my understanding, those that don't believe in Imamah will not be saved.
Shias killing sunnis, sunnis killing Shias, Zionists killing muslims while the US takes our oil. I think we got bigger problems then calling each other Kaafir and judging each other while condemning the other sect to hell. All I hope to achieve is a mutual understanding so we can get over this takfeeri attitude everyone has.
Quote:Actually, it's more like the other way around. Getting called a Wahabi or "the enemy" is what happens to young Sunnis with beards around there. Around 80% of Bahrain are Shi'ites.
Im sorry may I apologise on our behalf. Infact I have got into a lot of trouble for speaking out against this sort of behaviour. Once I was a chairman of a seminar which just turned into sunni bashing, so what did I do? I stopped the event and never invited the speaker back ever again. This is what I hope to stop. Its just ignorance and it is sooooo stupid.
Ask a Shia - Karbala - 06-28-2007
Quote: The word Ahl in Arbaic is used in particular to refer to the wife
Muslimah i know your teaching me arabic but the student will have to disagree with the teacher.
"Ahl" has been used in a number of senses in the Quran. e.g.
Ahl alKitab People of the Book
Ahlahu as in people of a city (2:126)
Ahl alInjeel People of Injeel (5:47)
etc etc.
Ahl can therefore have a general meaning to include all the people of a book, city or country which can include the wives etc etc. Similary AhlulBayt simply refers to the people of a dwelling.
However when we talk about Prophets the meaning becomes very very specific. To be included in the Ahl of a Prophet one must be 1. Related by blood and 2. Pious.
Hence we find that Noahs son is not counted as his "Ahl" since he was a doer of bad deeds
[sura Hud (11) : Verse 46] He said: O Nuh! surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the doer of) other than good deeds,
Earlier Hadji posted an objection in the form of a couple of verses 7:83 and 27:57
Quote:7:83 Thereupon We saved him and his household except his wife, who was among those that stayed behind
27:57 Thereupon We saved him and his household - all but his wife, whom We willed to be among those that stayed behind
I dont think this verse is counting the wife as Ahl of Lut. It simply says that his "Ahl" was saved and his wife was left behind.
Consider the following verse where the same word "Illa" is used.
2:34 And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam they did obeisance, but (Illa) Iblis. He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.
Now the angels are the subject of the verse and the exception is Iblees. But Iblees is not an anglel! Hence the word "Illa" does not necessarily include the exception (Luts wife or Iblees).
Hence a better translation for 7:83 or 27:57 would be Thereupon we saved him and his household, not so his wife who was among those left behind.
Ask a Shia - Hadji - 06-29-2007
Quote:Now the angels are the subject of the verse and the exception is Iblees. But Iblees is not an anglel! Hence the word "Illa" does not necessarily include the exception (Luts wife or Iblees).
Some Shi'ite scholars do consider Iblees as one of the angels. Take a look at Al-Tabrasi's Majma'a Al-Bayan fee Tafseer Al-Qur'an:
http://altafsir.org/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=4&...s&Page=5&Size=1
Ask a Shia - Hadji - 06-29-2007
Sorry about the double post. My finger slipped.
Ask a Shia - Karbala - 07-01-2007
In His Name the Most High,
Assalam O Alaikum
Quote:Some Shi'ite scholars do consider Iblees as one of the angels. Take a look at Al-Tabrasi's Majma'a Al-Bayan fee Tafseer Al-Qur'an:
I don't really see what this has to do with anything. If Tabrasi indeed claims such a thing he is mistaken. most of the Shia scholars believe Iblees was Jinn and was never an Angel.
To deal with the phrase إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللّهُ
Looking in the Arabic dictionary editor N.Awde & K.Smith published Bennet and Bloom "Innama" is defined as "but" or "only". Hence a possible translation for إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللّهُ is "God only wishes (to)" or "God wishes but (to)".
Looking at 9:55
فَلاَ تُعْجِبْكَ أَمْوَالُهُمْ وَلاَ أَوْلاَدُهُمْ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللّهُ لِيُعَذِّبَهُم بِهَا فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَتَزْهَقَ أَنفُسُهُمْ وَهُمْ كَافِرُونَ
[shakir 9:55] Let not then their property and their children excite your admiration; Allah <b>only</b> wishes to chastise them with these in this world's life and (that) their souls may depart while they are unbelievers.
Other examples of the use of "innama" is in the case of the will of Satan
إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ الشَّيْطَانُ أَن يُوقِعَ بَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةَ وَالْبَغْضَاء فِي الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ وَيَصُدَّكُمْ عَن ذِكْرِ اللّهِ وَعَنِ الصَّلاَةِ فَهَلْ أَنتُم مُّنتَهُونَ
[shakir 5:91] The Shaitan <b>only</b> desires to cause enmity and hatred to spring in your midst by means of intoxicants and games of chance, and to keep you off from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you then desist?
Hence "Innama" simply is a particle word which emphasises a statement by limiting its meaning or purpose. Hence in 9:55 Allah emphasises His will by limiting its purpose to the punishment of the unbelievers by their wealth and children.
Similarly in 5:91 Allah emphasises the will ofSatan by limiting it to causing enmity and hatred amongst men through intoxicants and games of chance.
A good verse to illustrate the usage of "innama" is 4:171 where Allah repeatedly uses the word "innama" for emphasis.
يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْحَقِّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ
O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is <b>only</b> a messenger of Allah and His Word
وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلاَثَةٌ انتَهُواْ خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللّهُ إِلَـهٌ وَاحِدٌ
and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is <b>only</b> one Allah
Hence I hope I have made the meaning of"innama" clear as I understand it.
Coming to verse 33:33
Allah <b>only</b> desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.
Hence "Innama" is used to emphasise the Will of Allah by limiting it to the purification of AhlulBayt.
Does this mean that this sentence necessarily connects the wives of the Prophet mentioned in the previous sentence to be included in AhlulBayt in this sentence?
My answer is No!
There are many examples in the Quran where one group is addressed and then after the particle "Innama" another group is addressed. 9:55 for example is addressing the Believers and after "Innama Yureed Allah" talks about the unbelievers.
Other examples are
9:17 The idolaters have no right to visit the mosques of Allah while bearing witness to unbelief against themselves, these it is whose doings are null, and in the fire shall they abide.
9:18 <b>Only</b>(innama) he shall visit the mosques of Allah who believes in Allah and the latter day, and keeps up prayer and pays the poor-rate and fears none but Allah; so (as for) these, it may be that they are of the followers of the right course.
First Ayah is addressing the idolaters after "innama" addresses believers.
9:44 They do not ask leave of you who believe in Allah and the latter day (to stay away) from striving hard with their property and their persons, and Allah knows those who guard (against evil).
9:45 They <b>only</b>(innama) ask leave of you who do not believe in Allah and the latter day and their hearts are in doubt, so in their doubt do they waver.
First Ayah addressing believers after "innama" addresses unbelievers.
9:92 Nor in those who when they came to you that you might carry them, you said: I cannot find that on which to carry you; they went back while their eyes overflowed with tears on account of grief for not finding that which they should spend.
9:93 The way (to blame) is <b>only</b>(Innama) against those who ask permission of you though they are rich; they have chosen to be with those who remained behind, and Allah has set a seal upon their hearts so they do not know.
First Ayah addresses good people after "innama" addresses bad people with seal on hearts.