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Now It is Time to AWAKE - wel_mel - 07-07-2003
salam all.
http://jamaat.net/bible/AwakeArticle(1957).html
wel_mel
Now It is Time to AWAKE - amai - 07-07-2003
Jehovah's witnesses isn't it?
those so-called "translators" or whoever as i've heard(so sue me) were made up of only 4 people. among these 4 people, only 1 could read Greek. the others most likely, manipulated the Bible all they want.
and they fail to point to us those "50,000" errors.
i could just imagine you talking about the Jesus Seminar next time.
Now It is Time to AWAKE - SisterJennifer - 07-07-2003
Amai, get over it will you. At least they have READ the Bible, they aren't just blind followers like yourself. You have a lot to learn about the Bible, and even about the Catholic church itself. But you aren't going to listen to me or anyone else here, so why don't you go and learn something before you come back again. I'm so tired of reading the same drivel over and over and you don't even know what you are talking about. You waste everyones time, including your own.
Now It is Time to AWAKE - wel_mel - 07-08-2003
salamo alikom sister Jennifer,
believe me sister jennifer, if you will show the Errors of the Bible to Amai his reply will be the same.. Amai here only to ARGUE not to UNDERSTAND.
if you put a glass on the possition UP SIDE DOWN you will never be able to fill it with water.
thats why i told you amai to be open HEART and open MIND.. you did not even ask us to show you ONE ERROR if you TRUST your Bible.
salam
wel_mel.
Now It is Time to AWAKE - amai - 07-08-2003
Quote:Amai, get over it will you. At least they have READ the Bible, they aren't just blind followers like yourself.[/quote:3f5b529712]sorry, but i'm not a believer who cling hopelessly into their holy book. i'm in search for [b:3f5b529712]evidences.[/b:3f5b529712]</div></blockquote>
say some Christian have read the Bible through and through, was fascinated by it and immediately worshipped Jesus without even researching whether this book has credibility. can he be sure he made the right decision in worshipping Jesus?
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You have a lot to learn about the Bible, and even about the Catholic church itself.[/quote:3f5b529712]they sure do, but i'm not a catholic. sorry to bust your bubble.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>believe me sister jennifer, if you will show the Errors of the Bible to Amai his reply will be the same.. [/quote:3f5b529712]it's [b:3f5b529712]her[/b:3f5b529712] not his.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Amai here only to ARGUE not to UNDERSTAND. [/quote:3f5b529712]i'm here to argue and also to understand.
i shut up when your explanation is without holes but if i see some flaws or loopholes, i point that out.
that link you posted is already old news and i've dealt with it, that's what i said in my post.
what's to understand? why don't you point some instances where i had been closeminded? i try to reply to every argument you present yet you leave some of my questions untouched, not even acknowledging it and forgetting it even exists.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>thats why i told you amai to be open HEART and open MIND..[/quote:3f5b529712]i [b:3f5b529712]am.[/b:3f5b529712] just look at the "my journery to islam" topic.
the article regarding the moon splitting was nowhere specific, lacks detail and cobborating evidence. there was no mention of the show, when it was aired, who the interviewees and the austronauts were and no one has heard about that news no matter how huge it is yet i'm still giving it the benefit of doubt.
even answering-christianity.com doesn't say anything about this.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>you did not even ask us to show you ONE ERROR if you TRUST your Bible.[/quote:3f5b529712]and who said i know of no alledged error?
[i:3f5b529712]
1. The authors of Samuel and Chronicles relate the same story about Prophet David taking a census of the Jews. However in 2nd Samuel, it states that Prophet David acted on God's instructions, while in 1st Chronicles, he acted on Satan's instructions.
II SAMUEL, 24 THE NUMBERING : "And again the anger of the Lord was kindles against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'
I CHRONICLES 21 THE NUMBERING : "And Satan sttod up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
2. In describing the length of a plaque prophesized by Gad ("And the Lord spoke to Gad, David's Seer, saying," I Chronicles 21:91.), the author of 2nd Samuel listed it as seven years, while the author of 1st Chronicles listed it as three years.
II SAMUEL 24:13 THE PLAQUE : "So Gad came to David and told him, and said unto him, 'SHall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue thee?"
I CHRONICLES 21:11 : "So Gad came to David, and said unto him, ' Thus saith the Lord, 'Choose thee either thjree years' famine, or three months to be destyoyes before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;'"
3. In 2nd Chronicles, Jehoiachin was described as being eight years old when he began to reign, while in 2nd Kings he was described as being eighteen years old.
II CHRONICLES 36:9 THE AGE : "Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem : and he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord"
II KINGS 24 : 8 THE AGE : "Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to eign, and he reigned Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughte of Elnathan of Jerusalem."
4. The author of 2nd Samuel described the number of those who dies during a battle with prophet David asbeing seven hundred, while the author of 1st Chronicles gave the number as seven thousand.
II SAMUEL 10:18 THE DEAD : "And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smopthe Shobach the captain of their host, who died there."
I CHRONICLES 19:18 THE DEAD : "But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians sven thousand men which fought in chariots and forty thousand footmen, and kille Shobhack the captain of the host.[/i:3f5b529712]
skeptics would claim that the quran is full of contradictions, but many of these i believe have been answered.
now you claim that the Bible is full of contradictions yet most(if not, all) have already been countered.
it's almost the same on both sides. no one would give up on this.
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Now It is Time to AWAKE - SisterJennifer - 07-08-2003
Ignorant people often resort to demagogy to justify themselves. This is a method by which they maintain their rights, or prestige, by using emotional, dishonest or oblique arguments rather than reason. Apart from these ploys, the way people conduct themselves is also an efficient element of demagogy. Interrupting, shouting and telling lies are well-known methods of demagogy. Disbelievers demonstrate a remarkable capacity for this 'art'. To justify their point of view or to establish superiority over others, they resort to inconceivable methods. The main purpose of all these efforts is to oppose the truth. They make all these efforts to justify themselves and thereby to find a pretext to ease their remorse.
This, however, is not a method developed by the individuals themselves. As in many other issues, Satan guides them. The statement of Satan in the following verses shows that Satan was the first demagogue in history.
[b:29f8b24be5](God) said: "O Iblis! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with My own hands? Are you haughty? Or are you one of the high (and mighty) ones?" He replied : "I am better than him. You created me from fire, while him You created from clay." He said: "Go forth from hence, for you are outcast." (Surah Sad: 75-77)[/b:29f8b24be5]
When he was told to prostrate himself before Adam, Satan arrogantly refused, and offered wicked explanations. This was typical demagogy; his pretext for not following the command of God is stated in the following statement of Satan: "You created me from fire, while you created him from clay." However his main purpose is to revolt against God. The comparison between fire and clay is only a pretext.
The attitude of ignorant people is exactly the same. They first decide to disobey and then find excuses for their disobedience. At this point, they do what Satan did and employ the various methods of demagogy to cover their dishonesty and to comfort themselves.
Satan indoctrinates them by stealth and constantly whispers methods of demagogy to their souls. Meanwhile, the individual struggles to choose between the voice of his common sense whispering the truth and the voice of his soul, that speaks for Satan. In this way, Satan approaches man in all circumstances and tempts him.
That is why for ages people all around the world employ exactly the same tactics and methods against religion. This fact is underlined in the Qur'an:
[b:29f8b24be5]But they say what the ancients said before them. (Surah al-Mumenoon: 81)[/b:29f8b24be5]
However, one point deserves mention here: Satan is a being completely under the control of God like all other creatures, such as the jinns, the angels and human beings. Contrary to the commonly held view, Satan is not a separate being, apart from and independent of God. He is in the service of God to test man in this world. This fact is explained in the following verse:
He said: [b:29f8b24be5]Then you are of those reprieved till The Appointed Day. He said: My Lord! Because You have sent me astray, I shall truly make pleasant the path of error for them on the earth, and shall mislead them every one. Save such of them as are Your perfectly devoted slaves. He said: This is a right course incumbent upon Me. As for My slaves, you have no power over any of them, save such of the sinners as follow you. (Surah al-Hijr: 36-42)[/b:29f8b24be5]
-Harun Yahya
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Now It is Time to AWAKE - amai - 07-09-2003
accuse me of anything but the fact is, only the not-yet-proven moon-splitting theory was the kind of evidence i've been "pestering"(hmm... or maybe not) i have read so far.
i've presented my reason on why i don't believe in that old news, you never countered it. instead, you accused me of not understanding, babbling incoherently, ignorant and blind.
stop using those demagogy or whatever for explanation, point to me when i had been closeminded or how.
quit telling me i'm a glass laid upside down and present me evidences instead.
and those verses you posted would have no effect in me.
Now It is Time to AWAKE - Ahmed Abdullah - 07-09-2003
Allah has described this miricle in the Qu'ran saying:
"The hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft as under" (54:1)
The following Hadith is also about the same miracle:
" Narrated Anas, may Allah be pleased with him: The people of Makkah asked the Prophet(saw) to show them a sign (miracle). So he showed them (the miracle) of cleaving of the moon." (Sahih Al- Bukhari)
Quote:even answering-christianity.com doesn't say anything about this[/quote:b1cc9df221]Um, are we talking about Christianity? You do not even recognize Muhammad(saw) as a prophet, so how could you find the answer there?
Saying the verses have no effect on you shows your closed mind. These are words of GOD, not people. Do not make light of the words of God. You even say you are here to argue. We do not want to argue. We will be happy to answer questions.
Can you show me where I personally have attacked Christianity?
Evidenses are present in all the questions we have answered for you. We give the answer, and you go of on a tangent. Your so called flaws and holes we have only exsit in your mind because you can not look at things objectively.
Just as Sisters Muslimah and Jennifer have said. Study and read, and read some more. If you are really trying to find the truth in religon, have a clear mind and open heart and be sincere. Allah will surely guide you.
Now It is Time to AWAKE - amai - 07-10-2003
Quote:Um, are we talking about Christianity?[/quote:07e2898c8a]answering-christianity.com is an [b:07e2898c8a]Islam[/b:07e2898c8a] Apologetics Site(which means i don't delve at only one side of the fence) and also, a er... "christianity-attacking"(not that literally) site.</div></blockquote>
if the moon gave the impression of having split into two, then the site(answering-christianity), this topic should've been imprinted in big bold red letters.
yet, i have seen none.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You do not even recognize Muhammad(saw) as a prophet,[/quote:07e2898c8a]because his character us questionable.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>so how could you find the answer there?[/quote:07e2898c8a]<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Saying the verses have no effect on you shows your closed mind.[/quote:07e2898c8a]closed mind, another accusation, has nothing to do with it.
if you point to an atheist a verse in the Bible which said "a fool hath said in his heart, there is no God", will that verse have any effect on him?
most probably, not. why? because he believes the Bible is hocus-pocus in the first place.
same in here. you can post verses all you want, but i'll not be affected by it.
why? because i don't trust the Quran.
you're so fast at accusing me close-minded, because i don't believe those verses. well, i guess i can say the same thing to you.
if i post many verses coming from the Bible that dealt with Jesus' resurrection and it didn't have any effect(in which you doubted or your faith lessend 10%) on you, can i call you then, perhaps, a [i:07e2898c8a]hypocrite?[/i:07e2898c8a]
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Can you show me where I personally have attacked Christianity? [/quote:07e2898c8a]i was not referring to you alone.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Evidenses are present in all the questions we have answered for you.[/quote:07e2898c8a]i'll be specific: i need a corroborating evidence.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>We give the answer, and you go of on a tangent. Your so called flaws and holes we have only exsit in your mind because you can not look at things objectively.[/quote:07e2898c8a]oh, the umpteenth accusation.
i'll not even bother defending myself since when i've tried, you sound as if you ignored it.
<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="456" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just as Sisters Muslimah and Jennifer have said. Study and read, and read some more. If you are really trying to find the truth in religon, have a clear mind and open heart and be sincere. Allah will surely guide you.[/quote:07e2898c8a]as i kept on mentioning, i'm being open-minded. i want to [b:07e2898c8a]find[/b:07e2898c8a] the truth, to secure my eternity in heaven.
i'm reading and reading and reading more and more.
and out of curiousity, when was the last time you visited a Christian site?(before you read this post)
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Now It is Time to AWAKE - wel_mel - 07-10-2003
amai ,
just wanted to tell you that i'm very happy to hear that you are trying to FIND the truth. then be sure INSHAA ALLAH you will find it, just keep on searching and keep on reading.. and do not ever try to discover ISLAM through Christian site. because you will not get correct info.
May GOD be with you,,
wel_mel.