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+--- Thread: Womens status in Islam. (/showthread.php?tid=9289)
Womens status in Islam. - Guest - 11-11-2003
I have been discussing with other posters on the Non Muslim guest forum about the perception of oppression of women in Islam. Most people who responded to my questions regarding this matter were quick to defend the status of women in Islam but I remain unconvinced. Here is an excerpt from an article from the main web site;
<i> If at a particular time, a lady has no desire for sex with her husband, but he insists for it, what is her right of refusal in this context ? </i>
A5. If a husband expresses his desire for sexual intercourse with his wife, and <b>asks her to fulfill his need,</b> then she should fulfill her husband's desire, and <b>she has no right to refuse him or deprive him of his need</b> (unless of course if she is undergoing her monthly menstruation period or is down with illness.
The article goes on to say that it is all a woman's fault should the man stray from the marriage etc.
See the link
http://www.islamsms.com/en/modules.php...article&sid=309
Does this just not re enforce the perception of oppression on women ?
Are there any women muslims on here that would defend this position ?
Womens status in Islam. - Muslimah - 11-12-2003
as salam a`alaman itab`alhoda
u didnt have to go through this trouble Habib of registering under a different nick and reply to your self. Actually, we told u more than one time, the problem with u is that u simply get the answers and ask same questions again. So no one is really interested in discussing something already discussed.
I hope u just stick to your nick and allow me to delet this one????? ok
no need for this
Womens status in Islam. - Muslimah - 11-13-2003
as salam a`ala man itaba`alhoda
Insh aAllah I will post what I know and of course my brothers and sisters are more than welcome to fill in, mind u JohnDoe I did not read the article u referred to on the other web site, I will just give what I know
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Praise be to Allah, may Allah expand my chest and release my tongue so that I use the proper useful words and put the correct info.
As the main reason for marriage is to allow both parties a legitimate way to fulfill their sexual need, therefore if either party is denied makes him/her vulnerable for sin.
A woman is entitled to ask for divorce for harm if her husband turned his back to her in bed since it implies a rejection.
Once a woman went complaining to Omar that her husband abandons her in bed. She precisely told him he fasts all day and stays up all night praying. He called him and explained to him that he must not abandon his wife in bed and must fulfill his duty in this regard so that he helps her maintain chastity.
Quran encourages men to indulge in foreplay before approaching their wives in an intercourse so that the woman is not to be seen as just a tool for the man’s pleasure but rather enjoys the act her self.
Every Muslim woman is aware of this and knows that she gains a reward for helping her husband to maintain chastity so is the man (which is the main purpose for marriage)
The Messenger of Allah (PAPBUH) said in a hadeeth that a man gains a reward when he has an intercourse with his wife, the companions asked we fulfill our desire and gain a reward he said yes because u would have shouldered a sin if u did that through an unlawful channel. So if the woman refuses her husband if he calls her for bed, she is sinful because she is helping him to commit a sin. We realize that and it is never seen, as rape never, because a Muslim man will also take his wife’s circumstances in consideration and never forces her. The Messenger of Allah was even very bold in this regard instructing the husband not to (I really have to find the right word which I can use) stop the act as soon as he is through until he makes sure that the wife is also through. He specifically said until she fulfills her need.
Well I just invoke upon Allah that I was capable to fulfill my duty and explain this point not to defend my religion but rather to provide info for whoever needs it.
Praise be to Allah and prayer and peace be upon His Messenger Mohamed, his household and companions.
Womens status in Islam. - Muslimah - 11-14-2003
as salam a`alaman itaba`alhoda
Alhamdulelah that somethings were cleared up, and in Islam there is nothing such as feminism, simply because the community is a whole and a well regulated entity by virtue of quran aand sunnah "if they are applied".
Womens status in Islam. - Ali - 11-15-2003
For Muslims the roles of Men, and Women are determined by the quran, and sunnah. We believe that no one can determine the level of freedom given to each gender, except Allah (SWT). Muslims do not become feminists, of Male chauvinists.
-- Ali
Womens status in Islam. - Muslimah - 11-18-2003
As Salam A`alaman itaba`alhoda
JohnDoe, u came to this board willingly to investigate Islam as u told me trying to take it from Muslims rather than Islamophobia. Islam is based on Quran and Sunnah. Originally u don’t believe in either. However, we can not invent rules to reply to u. So pls be patient with us while we explain to u. It is either u want to know or just act challenging. As I said earlier u came here willingly. Our role is just to open the door and switch the light on. Not to push u in. So stop feeling threatened.
As for your comment, u will need some explanation on the inter gender relation in Islam
Quran commands both genders (not only men) to lower their gazes, in other words, not to look at the opposite sex. The look usually leads to the rest. U might be passing by and look at a suit in a window display. U decide to go in and get it. U can not say Islam is extreme in this. There is saying I am sure u know it that goes like:” Find them feed them, love them leave them”. Therefore, to find them is to look at them. Islam dries the source of the sin. So we are commanded not to look at the opposite sex. Under not condition the man u r talking about means to disrespect the woman. Matter of fact, I feel disrespected if a man looks at me directly. See I am not wearing Niqab (face cover) and I work with men. Yet when I talk to them, I try not to look them in the face directly, so they try as well, while I make my interaction with them on a minimum level. It is out of respect to myself and an effort to help my Muslim brothers maintain a pious attitude and avoid any temptation.
In addition that there are certain manners we must abide by in terms of talking among genders. We know it and try to apply it.
Again u just tend to bring a certain incident and build a whole theory on it making a premature judgement. By no means such attitude is disrespectful to a woman on the contrary. Simply the man is protecting himself. Leave alone, u never mentioned how this woman was dressed. If she was dressed up immodestly, he even has more reasons not to look at her avoiding sins.
Womens status in Islam. - Dan - 11-18-2003
Bismillah
I was just thinking to myself at work the other day about this subject. In one culture if a man does not make eye contact, the woman is offended and believes that he does not respect her. In the other if the man looks the woman in the eye, she is threatened and feels disrespected. What is happening is two cultures judging one another on the basis of their own culture.
I experience this Catch-22 much living in America. On the one hand, I am commanded to lower my gaze. On the other, I know that nonmuslim women view lack of eye contact as disrespectful, like you are not aknowledging their existence. I deal with this by keeping a lowered gaze but giving the occasional glance up so the nonmuslim woman does not feel that I am not paying attention. Most women attribute this behavior to shyness, which I do not think I am but whatever helps them deal with my religious obligations works for me. For muslim women, we are on the same page so my gaze stays lowered. In fact, I go out of my way to make sure that she knows that I am not disrespecting her in any way. I will literally talk to the floor. By doing this though, I am hearing the words and message that she has to say, not looking at what her beauty says to me.
My wife is nonmuslim and when she met one of my friends from the mosque, he kept his gaze lowered. Later, she mentioned this and I told her that not only was he respecting me by not ogling my wife but he was also respecting her by getting to know her as a person with a mind, not a face with a body.
I did not read about this guy and it does not matter because there is no poster person for Islam anymore. If this guy was rude, then he was just a rude muslim. It does not mean Islam promotes rudeness. Not returning greetings from women is not part of Islam to my knowledge. You keep falling into the habit of using muslim people as the definition of Islam. If you define any religion by its followers instead of its ideals, you will come up lacking every time. Why? Because we are people and we make mistakes. It is all part of the journey. If I did not make my mistakes in the past, I would not be who I am now. It does not mean that I want to repeat them but I must allow that they did play a role in shaping who I am today. If I put my hand in the fire, I learn that I get burned. I am glad that I learned that lesson but I certainly do not want to relearn that lesson.
I must also commend you on finally being able to phrase your questions in a manner that promotes dialogue and not arguments. Continue this trend and I will be more than happy to converse with you more.
Alhamdulillah. Astaghfirullah.
Peace.
Womens status in Islam. - SisterJennifer - 11-18-2003
After the death of Prophet Muhammad, his wife, Aisha, was one of the best teachers of Islam. She was a teacher of both men and women, and highly respected to this day.
Womens status in Islam. - Dan - 11-18-2003
Bismillah
No.
I see what a problem might be in terms of clarifying answers.
As muslims we live according to the examples set by the first generations of muslims because we are told that they are the best of generations. How do I be a good muslim? Follow their example.
So, when you asked about a woman being a boss, the reply was an example of an early generation muslim woman who was a boss. This means that in Islam women can be bosses. In fact, they can own property, businesses, have their own bank accounts, and so on. In a marriage, the man must provide financially for the woman and children but if the woman has assests of her own these assests remain her's, no matter if they were earned before the marriage or during. She does not have to give one bit to her husband and Islamically he is forbidden from forcing her.
When I worked as a substitute at an Islamic school, women were my bosses and I had no problem listening to them. Let me rephrase that. While working at the school, I HAD to listen to them.
Alhamdulillah
As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu, Ukhti.
Womens status in Islam. - Dan - 11-19-2003
Bismillah
EXACTLY!!!
Alhamdulillah, it is starting to sink in. If you look around lately, you will also see many Christians and Bhuddists and Hindus and even the nonreligious not being virtuous either.
Women were allowed to ride camels so I do not understand the no driving thing either.
Astaghfirullah.