Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - Printable Version

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - Printable Version

+- Forums (https://bb.islamsms.com)
+-- Forum: ENGLISH (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Discussion of Beliefs (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? (/showthread.php?tid=6781)

Pages: 1 2

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - NewBeginning - 01-03-2007

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was not only a great person in his own time, but is one of the greatest figures of all times for all races, colors, and nationalities. His example was excellent for the 7th-century Arabs and remains excellent for all people living in the 21st century. The Prophet Muhammad was an excellent example for the rich and poor, the young and old, the rulers and subjects, and for intellectuals and ordinary people. Allah sent him as His Prophet for all humanity.

The morality of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was not restricted to just a few moral attributes, but included diverse traits and aspects of life. He was kind, compassionate, caring, generous, and humble, but he was also strong, brave, eloquent, wise, and insightful. He was a great planner, organizer, and thinker while at the same time he was also a man of faith, trust, and devotion to Allah.

He was the most merciful person in all of history. He was merciful to his family, followers, friends, and even enemies. He was merciful to the young and old, to humans and to animals. Those who persecuted him in Makkah and killed his relatives and his followers were later defeated in the battles. When they were captives under the Prophet Muhammad, he forgave them. He did not ever take revenge or retaliate. He was the most forgiving person. Even in times of war, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) never allowed the killing of anyone except those involved in the fighting; he issued clear orders against the killing of civilians, including women, children, and even those who were engaged in worship of any kind. He taught his followers to observe the sanctity of all life while engaged in a just war.

In his response to your question, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states the following:

Hundreds of millions of people all over the world believe in Islam. They come from extremely diverse backgrounds and represent virtually all the known races of humanity. Further, a great number of people, both men and women, convert to Islam regularly. That thousands and thousands of people embrace Islam each year from all around the world should be seen as a testament to the peace, serenity, simplicity, and beauty of the precepts and ideals of our Prophet Muhammad's message. If the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) preached violence, and led a violent life, it does not stand to reason that so many people would continuously flock to Islam on their own free will.

The Qur'an, the most fundamental scripture of Islam, teaches sanctity of life, not violence. It enjoins peace, justice, and compassion as basic tenets for all of humankind and condemns violence and aggression in all forms. [God enjoins justice and compassion and giving freely to the next of kin, and forbids lewdness, wickedness and oppression.He admonishes you so that you may take heed] (An-Nahl 16: 90).

In a society where human dignity was measured by race, ethnicity, color, status, and wealth, the Qur'an stressed the sacred bond of humanity binding all people. [O mankind, We have created you from a single pair of a male and female, and rendered you nations and tribes so that you might know one another. The most honorable of you in the sight of God is the one who is most conscious of Him. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware] (Al-Hujurat 49:13).

Even the concept of holy war is denounced in Islam because in Islam war can only be characterized as either just or unjust, not holy. The Qur'an permits only a just war, a war waged to remove tyranny and oppression, or in self-defense. The Qur'an is categorical in denouncing all wars of aggression.

[And fight in God's cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression — for, verily, God does not love aggressors.] (Al-Baqarah 2:190)

[Permission [to fight] is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged — and, verily, God has indeed the power to succor them.] (Al-Hajj 22:39)

Allah also forbids Muslims from attacking anyone who allows others to live in peace:

[Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, God does not allow you to harm them.] (An-Nisaa' 4:90)

[Hence, if they do not let you be, and do not offer you peace, and do not stay their hands, seize them and slay them whenever you come upon them: for it is against these that We have clearly empowered you [to make war].] (An-Nisaa' 4:91)

Muhammad, thus, took up arms only in self-defense.

Muhammad was born into a tribal society where the only bond recognized was that of the tribal bond. When he preached about the unity of God and universal brotherhood between all of humankind, the powerful members of his society violently opposed him. They subjected him and his followers to relentless persecution, even to the extent of lynching some of them. They were forced to leave Makkah to immigrate to Abyssinia and then to Madinah. Even in Madinah, he was not left alone to practice his religion. The tribes from his society rallied forces to eliminate him and his followers. Numerous attempts were even made on his life.

It was in this context that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was called to take up arms to defend himself and his followers. While doing so, he never compromised the sacred principle of sanctity of life, as he and his followers were ordered to govern themselves by the firm ethics of just war and clearly defined rules of engagement.

In a milieu where the killing of a single camel unleashed numerous wars costing thousands of lives, Muhammad waged wars that can be described as minor skirmishes as their casualties were kept to a minimum on both sides. This is because nothing was more abhorrent to Muhammad than killing an innocent soul.

In order to better appreciate the ethics of Muhammad's wars, we may do well to compare him with the war heroes of the Old Testament. What we read there is total wars often involving putting entire populations to the sword. To cite a few instances:

In the cities of these nations whose land the Lord your God is giving you as a patrimony, you shall not leave any creature alive. You shall annihilate them — Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, Jebusites — as the Lord your God commanded you. (Deuteronomy 20:16-17)

Go now and fall upon the Amalekites and destroy them, and put their property under ban. Spare no one; put them all to death, men and women, children and babes in arms, herds and flocks, camels, and asses. (1 Samuel 15:2-3)

After the conquest of Jericho: "They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it — men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys." (Joshua 6:21)

Contrary to the above, Muhammad never allowed the killing of anyone except those involved in the fighting; he issued clear orders against killing of civilians, including women, children, and even those who were engaged in worship of any kind. He forbade the slaughtering of animals except for food. Unlike some leaders who would order kill everything that breathed to be killed, he taught his warriors not to harm innocent living creatures. He taught his followers how to observe the sanctity of all life while engaged in a just war by narrating the story of an ancient prophet: An ant stung one of the prophets of old and in a fit of anger he ordered an entire anthill to be burned down; Allah then revealed to him, "Just because a single ant stung you, how dare you burn down an entire community which glorifies God!" (Al-Bukhari, Muslim, and Abu Dawud).

We also have traditions wherein Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) forbade his warriors from separating mother birds from their babies.

Those who consider the Old Testament figures to be sacred in spite of their "total-war policies" and their killings of entire populations and yet fail to recognize the prophetic witness of Muhammad, are clearly driven by bias and prejudice rather than objectivity or truth. They should compare Muhammad's general amnesty to the Makkans who had persecuted him and his followers, and waged wars against him for more than a decade with that of Joshua's act of putting the inhabitants of the entire city he conquered to the sword. Compare also Muhammad's interdict against the mutilation of enemy soldiers in combat with the Old Testament narrative of King David's feat of producing two hundred foreskins of Philistines as a trophy to get the hand of King Saul's daughter in marriage.

In quoting these stories of the Old Testament, I must however rush to point out, that I am — God forbid — in no way implying that we are allowed to make a value judgment about the actions of those great heroes or prophetic figures of the past; it would be unfair on our part to judge them by our own standards and laws that have evolved over the centuries. Theirs are to be strictly studied in their own specific milieu and context and must never be extended to that of ours. As the Qur'an says: [Those are a people who have passed away; theirs was what they did, and yours is what you do.You will not be questioned about their actions] (Al-Baqarah 2: 134). Historical actions and events must be judged and analyzed contextually, and this goes for all religions as well.

Now coming back to the issue of Muhammad's wars, I must further add that it is hypocritical to consider Muhammad as a man of war when we know that countless millions have perished over the last few centuries (most of which had nothing to do with Muhammad or any other religion). Indeed millions have perished in our past "enlightened" century in the course of the two world wars and other nationalistic struggles. These include countless men, women, children, and animals who have been killed or maimed or continue to be killed or maimed as a result of the use of depleted uranium, napalm, mines, and nuclear fallout.

Indeed, millions have perished in the name of godless communism and in the pursuit of nationalism, secularism, a country's national interest, and even the pursuit of natural resources. All people of conscience should heed the prophetic witness of Muhammad, when he said, "If even a little sparrow has been killed unjustly, it will appear before the Lord of the worlds crying for justice!"(An-Nasa'i, Ad-Darami, and Ahmad)

Lord alone knows how much accounting the "civilized nations" of the world will have to render for their killing of every breathing creature in the lands invaded in the name of "democracy," "freedom," "preemption," "humanitarian intervention," and even progress. Perhaps the best way to conclude this answer would be by quoting the prophetic words of Jesus (peace be upon him): "Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?" (Luke 6:41-42).

Excerpted, with slight modifications, from www.islam.ca.

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - NewBeginning - 01-04-2007

:) Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was not only a great person in his own time, but is one of the greatest figures of all times for all races, colors, and nationalities. His example was excellent for the 7th-century Arabs and remains excellent for all people living in the 21st century. The Prophet Muhammad was an excellent example for the rich and poor, the young and old, the rulers and subjects, and for intellectuals and ordinary people. Allah sent him as His Prophet for all humanity.

:D

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - wel_mel_2 - 01-04-2007

Bismillah:

Quote:Yes he was a man of war.

Please give yourself a break.

You (and your fellow skeptics) somehow failed to realize that Muhammad pbuh far from being “a man of war "...he must be called the savior of humanity", as described by George Bernard Shaw, and if we compare your opinion on Muhammad pbuh with what this great thinker have said, then your opinion will definitely carry no weight. 

You should direct your claim to those authorities, who only claim to be 'peaceful, peace-loving people' and 'peace-keepers of the world', but ironically have attacked thousands of innocent Muslims under the theme 'War on terror'.

The noted writer Arundhati Roy states: "So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is Peace."

Quote:He started with chopping the heads off the jews who rejected mohammads version of god,

Lies…lies…lies 

He never forced ANYONE to accept or reject his message, the Jews betrayed him during the battle of Al Khandak, and here is the whole story.

when the Prophet pbuh first settled at Medina, had patched up treaties with the Jews and guaranteed peace and full freedom of life, property and conscience. But when the Quraish wrote to them a threatening and inciting letter, they turned treacherous. The Prophet pbuh tried to get the treaty renewed. The Banu Nadir refused and they were banished. The Banu Quraiza concluded a fresh treaty and they were granted peace. These facts have been narrated briefly in Sahih Muslim in the following words:

Quote:" As reported by 'Abdullah Ibn 'Umar, the Jews of the Banu Nadir and the Quraiza fought with the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) banished the Banu Nadir but allowed the Banu Quraiza to stay on and showed them favours.

When the Banu Nadir had been banished, their leading chiefs, Huyayy Ibn Akhtab, Abu Rafi and Sallam Ibn Abi Al-Huquaiq had migrated to Khaibar and got recognised as leading chiefs. The battle of the Trenches was but the results of their machinations. They travelled far and near agitating the tribes till the whole country rose up in arms and attacked Medina in alliance with the Quraish. The Jews of the Banu Quraiza had a mind to stick to the treaty, but Huyayy Ibn Akhtab won them over with his guiles, promising to re-establish himself at Medina in case the Quraish abandoned the attack; and this promise he fulfilled.

The Banu Quraiza openly took sides in the battle of the Trenches; and when repulsed, brought the greatest enemy of Islam, Huyayy Ibn Akhtab with them. Now there was no way out for the Prophet pbuh but to settle accoutns with them once for all."

the Banu Qurayzah prior to the incident of their so-called "massacre" attempted to betray the Muslims by openly aligning themselves with the Confederate armies (consisting of the pagan Quraysh and their allies) during the beseiging of the city of Madinah, known in history as the "War of the Confederates" . This is a significant act of treason, because they had earlier pledged to uphold the Madinan Covenent with the Muslims, which stipulates cooperation and an alliance if the Muslims in Madinah were attacked by a foreign force. "

The Muslims had hardly finished the preparations when the formidable army of the confederates consisting of 24,000 trained warriors, one of the largest forces ever assembled in the history of Arabia, knocked at the gates of Medina with determination to crush Islam. The whole of Arabia was thirsting for Muslim blood. It was critical juncture that a huge number of hypocrites seceded from the Prophet pbuh on one pretext or the other. Banu Qurayzah who had been his ally, also deserted to the hostile camp since Huyayy b. Akhtab the head of the Banu Nadir had promised them all kinds of concessions and rewards.

Muhammad pbuh deuputed Sa'd b. Mu'adh and Sa'd b. 'Ubadah to negotiate with them and persuade them to honour their agreements with the Prophet. All the attempts of these devoted sons of Islam were futile. It was an hour of distress for the Muslims. The Holy Qur'an has referred to this state of affairs in the following words:

When they came upon you from above you and from below you and when eyes turned aside and hearts reached the gullets and of Allah ye were imagining various things. There were the believers proven and shaken with a mighty shaking. And when the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease saying: Allah and His apostle have promised us naught but delusion.' And when a party of them said : O inhabitants of Yathribm there is no place for you, so return.' And a party of them asked leave of the Prophet saying : Veryily our houses lie open; whereas they lay not open; they only wished to flee.
(xxxiii:10-13)"

So, we can conclude that the "other" side (the Banu Quraiza) renounced the treaty. And that the Muslims did not betray them, however, they were the ones who betrayed the Muslims. 

So, after the Jews' betrayal to the Prophet peace be upon him, it became necessary to punish them and cleanse them out of the Holy Lands:

During the worst and most difficult times of times for the Prophet pbuh, at the battle of the trench, while there were armies surrounding Madeenah, the Jews plotted to kill the Prophet pbuh and his companions from within Madeenah. The companions, may Allah be pleased with them, were having a terrible experience during this battle, yet the Jews at this most critical of times, broke the pledge of non-aggression and mutual defence which they given to the Prophet pbuh, so what do you expect him to do? Indeed, this is the judgment of Allah with regard to the Jews who are the people of betrayal, deception, evil and corruption; the people who exhibited these repugnant characteristics even with the most honourable of the creations of Allaah; His Prophets and Messengers.

Quote:And didn't he also con a relative into divorcing his wife so Mohammad could marry her ?

Wow, you are truly ignorant of what happened.

Ok open your eyes wide and look at theVerses 33:4-5 "Allah has not Made for any man two hearts in his (one) body: nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zihar your mothers: nor has He Made your adopted sons your sons
. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah Tells (you) the Truth, and He Shows the (right) Way."

Zihar is the divorce done by pagan Arabs before Islam, where a man would say to his wife you are to me like my mother. The man could marry another woman, where the woman couldn't marry another man, which was very degrading to all women.

Zayd's, the Prophet's alleged "adopted son" by the haters of Islam, wife, was the one who wanted to divorce him and marry the Prophet. She was not forced into the marriage by any means. Look at Verse 58:1 "God has indeed heard (and accepted) the statement of the woman who pleads with thee concerning her husband and carries her complaint (in prayer) to God: and God (always) hears the arguments between both sides among you: for God hears and sees (all things)."

Look also at Verse 33:37 "Behold! thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: 'Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah.' But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then Zayd had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), we joined her in marriage to thee: In order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the believers in (the matter) of marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled."

According to the Islamic laws, where from the above Qur’anic Verses do you see our beloved Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him marrying his daughter in law?!

According to Verses 33:4-5 above, we clearly see that an adopted son is NOT
in the place of an actual son. An adopted son is a son from a stranger person. The foster father would still have to treat the adopted son with kindness and fulfill all of his needs. But the adopted son can never be an actual son.

According to Verse 33:37 above, we clearly see that Allah Almighty allowed for the Muslims to marry the former wives of their adopted sons!

If a man called another's son "his son", it might create complications with natural and normal relationships if taken too literally. The truth is the truth and can not be altered by men's adopting "sons". "Adoption" in the technical sense is not allowed in Islam. Those who have been "wives of your sons proceeding from your loins" are within the prohibited degrees of marriage, but this does not apply to "adopted" sons; "Prohibited to you (for marriage) are your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in no prohibition if ye have not gone in (those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins
; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 4:23)"

So, Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him did not marry his daughter in law as the deceivers from the anti Islamics always claim. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is a great Messenger from Allah Almighty. Allah Almighty in the Noble Quran does not recognize an adopted son as a real son, because He, the Almighty, has His Great Wisdom behind it, to save us from complications and genetically and cultural problems

Quote:Now, I know my harsh words may offend many of the muslims

Your harsh words are expected John, you have brought nothing new.

Quote:But it does not make him any more or less of a power hungry warmonger that came before him or after him.

The desire to enjoy status and power is usually associated with good food, fancy clothing, monumental palaces, colorful guards, and indisputable authority. Do any of these indicators apply to Muhammad pbuh? you ask yourself!! despite his responsibilities as a Prophet, a teacher, a statesman, and a judge, Muhammad pbuh used to milk his goat, mend his clothes, repair his shoes, help with the household work, and visit poor people when they got sick. He also helped his Companions to dig a defensive trench by moving sand with them. His life was an amazing model of simplicity and humbleness. what kind of "a power hungry warmonger" that you are talking about?

On one occasion, in response to his uncle's plea to stop calling people to Islam, and in return the leaders of Mecca will give him authority, wealth as much as he wishes, Muhammad’s pbuh answer was: "I swear by Allah, that if they place the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand in return for giving up this matter (calling people to Islam), I will never desist until either Allah makes it triumph or I perish defending it." 

Muhammad pbuh and his few followers not only suffered from persecution for thirteen years, but the unbelievers even tried to kill Muhammad pbuh several times. On one occasion they attempted to kill him by dropping a large boulder on his head. Another time they poisoned his food. What could justify such a life of suffering and sacrifice even after he was fully triumphant over his adversaries? What could explain the humbleness and nobility that he demonstrated? Were they not due only with Allah's help and not to his own genius? Are these the characteristics of a power-hungry or self-centered man? 

Salam

Wael

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - unit - 01-06-2007

interesting read..

i think i can already predict the fallout.. somebody will post with some info to counter what was just said (ad infinutum) it happens all the time on message boards.. the argument has raged for 1000+ years i don't think some people on a message board will make input, sadly..

jesus and muhammed were just humans..? no human is perfect.. it's hard to get dirt on jesus (well.. depending on who you listen to) but poor old muhammed seems to cop a lot of flack.. it's probable that J and M are both flawed.. it's also interesting to note that the one who may NOT have existed (jesus) seems more desirable than the one who DID exist.. (romanticising?)

will stay posted..

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - Muslimah - 01-06-2007

Bismillah

John, I think I posted this link for u quite a number of times, but u prefer to turn a deaf ear.

Well, here is what a Jew says, just try and be as objective:

http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=3831

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - unit - 01-06-2007

i've just re-read most of this.. (trying to find a little common ground to work with..)

Quote:He was the most merciful person in all of history

where does all this biz about him being a warmonger come from??

i know in medieval times ppl married quite young.. how old was his wife aisha? with the social framework of today some people might call that pedophilia (please excuse that word but how else do i say it?)

Quote:<< ... but he was also strong, brave, eloquent, wise, and insightful. He was a great planner, organizer, and thinker while at the same time he was also a man of faith, trust, and devotion to Allah.

i like him already ;)

Quote:Hundreds of millions of people all over the world believe in Islam. They come from extremely diverse backgrounds and represent virtually all the known races of humanity.

it's gaining popularity in prisons also.. especially with black people (i think i can see why)

Quote:In a society where human dignity was measured by race, ethnicity, color, status, and wealth, the Qur'an stressed the sacred bond of humanity binding all people. [O mankind, We have created you from a single pair of a male and female, and rendered you nations and tribes so that you might know one another. The most honorable of you in the sight of God is the one who is most conscious of Him. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware] (Al-Hujurat 49:13).

nice stuff.. interesting.. why is Allah called God here? more hmm.. it also says "WE" created you (etc)

Quote:Go now and fall upon the Amalekites and destroy them, and put their property under ban. Spare no one; put them all to death, men and women, children and babes in arms, herds and flocks, camels, and asses. (1 Samuel 15:2-3)
After the conquest of Jericho: "They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it — men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys." (Joshua 6:21)

-- about this.. (compared to a 'JUST' war) i also had problems with statements like that in the bible.. the only thing that comes to mind FOR it is if i remember correctly the amalakites were descendants of nephilim -- and HAD to be purged.. (are nephilim the same as djinn?)

if you could point me to some url's where i can get some concrete info on stuff like muhammed being peacefull (as u mention) would help me out here

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - Curious Christian - 01-06-2007

I simply cannot understand the blind devotion to the notion that Mohammed was "one of the greatest" men ever to have lived.

I just can't understand it.

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - Curious Christian - 01-06-2007

Quote:He was just a man, if he did exist that is.

Even if you believe that you can't produce any evidence that he acted anything like Mohammed.

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - Curious Christian - 01-06-2007

Quote:I see, you can't understand the cult like following that (the very real) mohammad enjoys but the cult like following that (the questionable) jesus enjoys is perfectly rational ?

Carry on. :wavey:

Lets see...historical facts stand in stark contrast to the claims made about Mohammed on this board.....that he is peace loving etc....ergo, I cannot understand how people here constantly say that he is the greatest person in the history of man...

Jesus, on the other hand, well....even if you call him just a man you can't pin murders on him...

That is all I am saying.

Was Muhammed(saws) Violent? - Faith Hope Charity - 01-07-2007

Quote:I see, you can't understand the cult like following that (the very real) mohammad enjoys but the cult like following that (the questionable) jesus enjoys is perfectly rational ?

Carry on. :wavey:

John, I can't figure you out!

What exactly are your issues with Jesus? Or is it Christians that you're against?

Being sceptical is one thing, but why are you so anti-religion? You know how much Christ means to us so why do you constantly put Him down? I'm surprised Muslims aren't offended since they revere Him as a blessed Prophet.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today" (Mahatma Gandhi).
 Now there's a non-Christian I can appreciate & admire! May he rest in peace.

CC, I love you to death, man, but please do me a favour, when you ask questions about Mohammad (PBUH), do so with consideration towards Muslims. If we want their respect we must earn it!

God bless you both.