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A Comparison - Teh_Curious - 01-03-2007
Death - Jesus died and rose from the dead - Muhammad died and stayed dead.
Fighting - Jesus never fought - Muhammad fought many many times
Hearing from God - When Jesus heard from God he went to the desert to be tempted and began his ministry with boldness, (Mark 1:14-15). - When Muhammad heard from God (through an angel) he cowered, was uncertain, and wanted to commit suicide (Quran 74:1-5)
Identity - Jesus claimed to be God (John 8:24; 8:58) as well as a man.
Jesus claimed to be the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6) -. Muhammad claimed to be a man.
Instructions - Jesus Received From God the Father (John 5:19) - Mohammad From an angel
Killing - Jesus never killed anyone - Muhammad killed many
Life - Jesus had the power to take life, but never did. He restored it. - Muhammad had the power to take it, but he never restored it.
No one ever died in Jesus' presence Many people died in Muhammad's presence -- he killed them.
Marriage - Jesus never married - Muhammad had over 20 wives and even married a nine year old girl.
Ministry - Jesus received his calling from God directly (Matt. 3:17).Jesus received his commission in the daylight
Muhammad received it from an angel (Gabriel) Muhammad received his words in the darkness of a cave.
Ministry Length - Jesus taught for 3 1/2 years - Muhammad taught for more than 20 years
Miracles - Jesus performed many miracles including healing people, calming a storm with a command, and raising people from the dead. - Muhammad's only alleged miracle was the Quran.
Prophecy - Jesus fulfilled biblical prophecy about being the Messiah - Muhammad did not fulfill any biblical prophecy except the ones about false teachers (Matt. 24:24).
Sacrifice - Jesus voluntarily laid his life down for others - Muhammad saved his own life many times and had others killed.
Sin - Jesus never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22) - Muhammad was a sinner (Quran 40:55; 48:1-2)
Slaves - Jesus owned no slaves - Muhammad owned slaves.
Virgin Birth - Jesus was virgin born - Muhammad was not virgin born.
Voice of God- Jesus received and heard the direct voice of God (Mark 1:10-11) - Muhammad did not receive or hear the direct voice of God. It was an angel instead.
Women - Jesus spoke well of women - Muhammad said women were were 1/2 as smart as men (Hadith 3:826; 2:541), that the majority in hell will be women (Had. 1:28,301; 2:161; 7:124), and that women could be mortgaged.
A Comparison - PUPPET - 01-03-2007
Did you ever see a Muslim/islamic article or author being derogatory towards any prophets (Moses, Luth, Noah, Abraham, Ismael, ect)?
To address some points up there:
The play on words state Muhammed (saw) Killed
, they could have written he PRTOECTED, DEFENDED, HELPED and FOUGHT, lost his own blood and sacrifcied his saftey for the pretection of muslims and the oppressed.
Moses Slapped a man to death did he not ? And fought the Pharos armies?
Soloman (Suleiman A.S ) Lead his armies in defense of his people, was he a Murderer
The Sin part: Adam A.S did he sin when he Ate the Apple ? was ADAM a Sinner.
Prophets did not SIN , decisions made that were not contextually appropriate (judgment
by error). That is not a sin.
Correct Muhammed SAW did not claim Devinity, he was Human , a Prophet of God, Flesh and BLood, like Moses, Luth , Noah, Jesus ect
Jesus will Marry upon his Return to earth.
WHat does lenght of Time on earth have to Do with Status ?
Yes ISA JEsus was Virgin Born, Muslims accept this Miracle, SO ?
Jesus Heard the Direct Voice of God (that sounds now like 2 diff people, I know about the trinity just saying)
Muhammed (SaW) Travelled to the heavens , Met God,
The moon was split by him, among a few other Miracles.
The artcile Uses Quraan Text to proove its points, so why does it not use the same Quraan and other verses to Accept our points?
My post is not about WHO is Superior between Jesus A.s or Muhammed A.S, Islam and muslims respect and Love both.
Some People Take a Derogirity stance against Muhammed SAW, such as the above Disrespectfull article , Whereas islam Respects.
This is my personal thoughts , and Perhaps some Muslims may wish to add or even correct me if I am incorrect
A Comparison - Teh_Curious - 01-04-2007
Quote:Jesus will Marry upon his Return to earth.
ive believe next time Jesus comes to earth he will have bigger things on his mind other than marrying .. next time he returns is to pass judgment on the living and the dead.
Quote:Did you ever see a Muslim/islamic article or author being derogatory towards any prophets (Moses, Luth, Noah, Abraham, Ismael, ect)?
Yes Jesus.
Quote:The play on words state Muhammed (saw) Killed
, they could have written he PRTOECTED, DEFENDED, HELPED and FOUGHT, lost his own blood and sacrifcied his saftey for the pretection of muslims and the oppressed.
i suspect the word choice was very deliberate, Jesus protected and defended helped and fought (non-violently) also but still didnt have to kill anyone, are you saying Muhammed didnt kill anyone?
moses, soloman and adam - i believe there is little dispute between Islam and Christianity, but seeing as most assetions from muslims is in regard to Jesus i didnt feel they were needed as they wernt the main belief of christians Jesus is.
Quote:WHat does lenght of Time on earth have to Do with Status ?
very little its nothing more than a comparison of the 2 people
Quote:Muhammed (SaW) Travelled to the heavens , Met God,
The moon was split by him, among a few other Miracles.
The artcile Uses Quraan Text to proove its points, so why does it not use the same Quraan and other verses to Accept our points?
if you have a reference for this id be really interested in reading it, i do not recall reading anything like this so theres not much i can say at this stage. ive been told by Muslims the only miracle Muhammed made was the Quran.
Quote:The Sin part: Adam A.S did he sin when he Ate the Apple ? was ADAM a Sinner.
Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam.
Quote:Prophets did not SIN , decisions made that were not contextually appropriate (judgment
by error). That is not a sin.
thats a fine way to split hairs care to clarify this?
this was a good responce that i enjoyed reading, if ive failed to adress any points let me know :)
A Comparison - Faith Hope Charity - 01-04-2007
Peace :peace:
Quote:Hearing from God - When Jesus heard from God he went to the desert to be tempted and began his ministry with boldness, (Mark 1:14-15).
Quote:Jesus Heard the Direct Voice of God (that sounds now like 2 diff people, I know about the trinity just saying)
Interestingly, the passage Teh_Curious referred to makes manifest the Three Divine Persons in the One True God. Here's the account according to St Matthew:
<b>And when Jesus was baptized, He went up immediately from the water and behold, the heavens were opened and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on Him; and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased" (St Mt 3:16-17 RSV).</b>
In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.
This is the Gospel of the Lord.
A Comparison - Ruggedtouch - 01-06-2007
Quote:Did you ever see a Muslim/islamic article or author being derogatory towards any prophets (Moses, Luth, Noah, Abraham, Ismael, ect)?
Yes, actually I have. More to the point, we see moslems being derogatory toward plain old humans. Moslems' worldwide assault on humanity could be considered kinda' derogatory.
Quote:To address some points up there:
The play on words state Muhammed (saw) Killed
, they could have written he PRTOECTED, DEFENDED, HELPED and FOUGHT, lost his own blood and sacrifcied his saftey for the pretection of muslims and the oppressed.
It's not a play on words that mohammed killed people. He did in fact kill people. That's not particularly difficult to understand.
A Comparison - unit - 01-06-2007
Quote:And when Jesus was baptized, He went up immediately from the water and behold, the heavens were opened and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on Him; and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased" (St Mt 3:16-17 RSV).
in other such descriptions, there is usually no mention of this 'holy ghost' or trinity.. consider when (is it ezekial?) sees the throne of the God and Jesus at its side (there is no other mention of a 3rd aspect)
i don't get this trinity thing.. it seems to be an invention of the vatican..?
A Comparison - Teh_Curious - 01-06-2007
for me the trinity has always been one of those grey areas. the way i see it and doctinally i could be blaspheming (not that ill loose any sleep over it :P). But imagine meeting GOD, for all we think we believe we still dont understand the nature of GOD in his physical manefestation (i dont mean carbon based i mean on the level that he is actually able to physically present himself to a human).
does he look like us?
in genesis 1:27 the Bible says: "So God created man in his own image"
or is his pressence so immense the human mind is incapable of understanding.
Jesus isnt god but he's "a part/inclusive" of gods divine pressence, he is gods sacrafice and also his messenger of his love.
did god know jesus would be crucified because of human nature when he sent him to us, or was his death gods design from the begining? (also leads t questions about Judas did he have a choice to do what he did?)
the holy spirit seems to be gods direct way of communication its like the will of god in its most pure sense, though it is not god in itself its more an extension.
at least thats how i perceive it.
A Comparison - unit - 01-06-2007
Quote:for me the trinity has always been one of those grey areas.
still is for me..
Quote:the way i see it and doctinally i could be blaspheming (not that ill loose any sleep over it :P). But imagine meeting GOD, for all we think we believe we still dont understand the nature of GOD in his physical manefestation (i dont mean carbon based i mean on the level that he is actually able to physically present himself to a human).
moses apparently sees God as a burning bush
Quote:does he look like us? in genesis 1:27 the Bible says: "So God created man in his own image"
well actually.. it says 'let us' (which is beside the point but i think opens up a whole NEW can of worms)
the God in the original hebrew was called ELOHIM which is a uniplural, a singular unit comprised from many.. (the same way that a 'house' is made of 'people' or a 'church' is made of the 'congregation'..) interesting stuff..
Quote:or is his pressence so immense the human mind is incapable of understanding.
not sure on this one.. if so why bother at all to meddle i mean interact with humans (if we'll never get it what's the point?) -- what we might say as peculiar where he asks abraham to sacrifice his son others say it proves that abraham feared God and was willing to give up his only begotten son (sound familiar?) (apparently these coincidences are called 'types' - they're a kind of metaphor) maybe this requires a leap of faith.. faith i just don't have at this point in time..
Quote:Jesus isnt god but he's "a part/inclusive" of gods divine pressence, he is gods sacrafice and also his messenger of his love.
yeh so the story goes.. :) if we take into account what he says on the cross (father why have you forsaken me) we can infer that there is indeed a seperation of sorts between the two (otherwise i suppose he might have said 'myself, why have i forsaken myself!' heh)
Quote:did god know jesus would be crucified because of human nature when he sent him to us, or was his death gods design from the begining? (also leads t questions about Judas did he have a choice to do what he did?)
it was part of Gods plan [edit] see genesis where God speaks to mary 'your seed will crush his head and his seed will bruise your heel' (not exact but hey this is all from memory...) it's right after the fall (apple eating) if you wanna see it..?
Quote:the holy spirit seems to be gods direct way of communication its like the will of god in its most pure sense, though it is not god in itself its more an extension.
i've heard this before.. but i don't buy it.. (as i said before about ezekial's description)
Quote:at least thats how i perceive it.
cool. thnx for sharing :)
why can't the trinity be explained simply? :banghead:
A Comparison - Muslimah - 01-06-2007
Bismillah
Jazakum Allah khairan PUPPET for your response. Alhamdulelah, I think to the first glance, you addressed all points, just in case another silent member, who is sincerely keen on understanding would come and read. Certainly, you understand that we do cover points when they are unattended to, regardless of the aim of the poster.
Now Teh, if u really want to understand about Mohamed's prayer and peace be upon him, several miracles.
Well, although this might put me at risk with Dan (being very particular about the off topic issue), but still I will try and be brief.
When Muslims stress the Quran as the major miracle [b]granted to Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him, pls note granted to, not made by,[/b], it does not mean that Allah Didnt grant him other miracles.
Before I list a few of those miracles, i like first to elaborate on something. What is the difference between miracles granted to other prophets and Messengers and the Quran as a major miracle?
Miracles granted to Messengers prayer and peace be upon all of them, such as Mussa's stick turning into a snake, splitting the sea, and more. Eassa's (Jesus) raising the dead, healing the leprotic, forming birds from clay then blowing into it to turn into live bird by the Will of Allah, Soliman's control over jin who build for him chappels, and fulfilling other commands for him, and other similar miracles are all of an immediate effect that does not sustain beyond the generation who attended them. For example, Allah in particular, granted Jesus those deeply spiritual miracles in order to balance the mere materialism the jews turned to develop after Mussa and other Prophets who were sent to them..
Thus, the Wisdom behind stressing the Quran as a miracle, is its sustainbility, being a book of legislation, manual to Muslims, a guide to the system of Muslim life. Leave alone its language style which is incomparable. Allah revealed it to the Arabs, who at that time, were the masters of the Arabic langugage, yet they were impressed with the language which had an effect, an influence that can not be described, even on those fierce fighters to Islam. They were effected, regardless the fact that they didnt embrace Islam. Its effect on the human body is test even during our modern time. Search for this.
List of miracles (not an exhaustive list):
1. Quran.
2. The moon was split asunder.
The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder (the people of Makkah requested Prophet Muhammad to show them a miracle, so he showed them the splitting of the moon). (quran 54:1)
3. Allah Compiled the whole earth till he was able to see its easts and wests.
4. He used to lean over a tree trunk while delivering his surmon, when they built a pulpit for him, he stopped using that trunk. The trunk was heard moanig till the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him held it to stop.
5. Water sprang from between his fingers.
6. Pepples made tasbeeh (Glorifying Allah) in his palm.
7. Stones and trees gave him salam.
8. A poisoned arm of a lamb spoke to inform him about the poison.
9. A camel complained to him about his master's harsh attitude (no food and much work).
10. The companion Qatadah Bin No`man Alansary was lost his eye during the battle of Uhud, the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him took it and planted it back into it place.
11. He foretold Othman Ibn A`ffan, may Allah be pleased with him, that he will be infliced with a major crisis (in reference to him murder).
I just broughforth a number of the physical miracles. Hope I added to your info. Alhamdulelah.
I remember Wael posting an excellent piece about this particular issue, may be INsh aAllah he can search and add it later.
A Comparison - Curious Christian - 01-06-2007
Question remains...
Why was Jesus so different from Mohammed?
You forgot to mention...
Jesus was born a virgin.
Jesus asscended into heaven and didn't die.
Muslims can't deny either.
Unfortunatley for Islam Mohammed can't escape history. Plural marriage (even to the extent of making rules for himself which differed from the rules about marriage he gave his followers), military conquests, assinations theivery....not really prophet-like.
<i>Ibn Ishaq recounts the killing of "the enemy of God" named Ka'b son of al-Ashraf. (See page 365 ff) After Badr, Ka'b "began to inveigh against the apostle…" He wrote and declared verses of poetry that were insulting to Mohammed and Islamic women. Mohammed said, "Who will rid me of the son of Ashraf?" Muhammad son of Maslama said, 'I will deal with them for you, O apostle of God, I will kill him.' He said, 'Do so if you can.'" Mohammed then gave the assassin permission to lie and deceive the target of his wrath. Amazingly, the killer recruited the victim's foster brother, who had become a Muslim. Together, with the foster brother having the victim's confidence, they led him on a midnight stroll pretending to visit and conduct business with him. On signal, they lunged on him. The assassin reported: "I thrust [my dagger] into the lower part of his body, then I bore down upon it until I reached his genitals, and the enemy of God fell to the ground... Our attack upon God's enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life"</i> (368, Ibn Ishaq)
Just one example. Mohammed dealt in violence. This cannot be refuted by history. Jesus, on the other hand, dealt in peace. I don't think Mohammed would have willingly gone to the cross.
Tragically, we shall now see that women are not exempt from this type treatment. When Abu 'Afak was assassinated for publicly speaking against Mohammed's killing of another man, Asma daughter of Marwan spoke out against Abu 'Afak's murder. Ishaq records:<i> "When the apostle heard what she had said he said, 'who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?' Umayr... who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he said, 'You have helped God and his apostle, O Umayr!' When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, 'Two goats won't but their heads about her...'"</i> (Ibn Ishaq, 675)
…And lest anyone think that Mohammed did not sully his own hands with the blood of his enemies, <i>Ibn Ishaq lets us know that Mohammed possessed prisoners after the battle of Uhud that he "killed with his own hand." (Ibn Ishaq, 403) The histories I have read give little detail about the event, but they record it, as well as Mohammed’s pride when he told his daughter that his sword “served him well” that day. This is a key incident (as is the one that follows) because it shows Mohammed himself, not merely killing in battle, but then killing prisoners and hostages.</i>
<b>Please don't consider this disrespect. These are the words of Ishaq...not mine. If they aren't true...please explain and tell us.</b>