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No Compulsion in Islam? - Curious Christian - 04-04-2007
Some will use the following to present Islam as an open, tolerant religion, apologists typically present the famous "no compulsion" part of the Koran...
<i>2:256: "There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower</i>
However the verse which follows 2:256 seems to convey a different idea when read together...
<i>2:257: "Allah is the protecting guardian of those who believe. He bringeth them out of darkness into light. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are the rightful owners of the Fire [of Hell]. They will abide therein [forever]."</i>
Both verses together certainly convey a different message than the typical apologist snippet from 2:256. The pair of complete verses show the Koran's respective policies for Muslims (believers) and non-Muslims (disbelievers). Believers are warned not to slip into disbelief, and disbelievers are warned to become believers — or else. In other words, according to this passage, there is compulsion in Islam, despite the initial "no compulsion" statement. Verse 18:29, itself, bears some similarities to the 2:256-257 pair:
<i>18:29: "Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!" </i>
The policy in the Koran does not appear to be "Believe it or not," but instead is "Believe it or else!" The damnation of disbelievers in 2:257 and 18:29 is consistent with Allah's policy throughout the Koran. There are over 250 separate damnations of disbelievers in the Koran. True believing Muslims, on the other hand, are promised with the reward of Paradise in the Hereafter.
Many verses in the Koran say that believers should strive against the disbelievers universally (e.g., Muslims should ________ the non-Muslims: <i>fight/oppose/shun/strive against/regard as the enemy/never help/never befriend/sever family ties with/never compromise with/never obey/never forgive/chastise/curse/be ruthless toward/be stern toward/etc.</i> [3:118; 3:28, 3:56; 3:87-88, 4:50, 4:63, 4:101, 4:139-140, 4:144, 5:54, 5:57, 8:65, 9:14, 9:23, 9:73-74, 9:123, 25:52, 28:86, 31:7, 33:48, 45:7-8, 48:28-29, 53:29, 58:5, 58:22, 60:1, 60:4, 60:10, 60:13, 63:6, 66:9, 68:8-9, 76:24, 84:24].
No statements in the Koran contradict this policy toward the disbelievers. That is, there are no verses that say "Be genuine friends with the disbelievers," or "Treat the disbelievers kindly, as good as you would treat Muslims").
The Koran repeatedly identifies the disbelievers as the enemy, evil, wicked, wrong-doers, evil-doers, on the side of Satan and fighting against Allah, etc. (16:27, 2:91, 2:99, 80:42, 9:125, 42:45, 2:254, 5:45, 42:44, 4:76-77, 58:19, 7:27, 7:30, 25:55, 63:4). Christians and Jews are also condemned and insulted many times (2:61, 4:48, 4:50, 4:116, 4:47-52, 4:55, 4:157, 4:160, 5:12-5:13, 5:37, 5:51, 5:53, 5:59-60, 5:72-73, 5:79, 18:52, 33:26, 59:14, 98:1).
Religious freedom requires the ability to freely express criticism of a religion. The Koran forbids this (2:2). As everyone now knows, it is not possible to criticize Islam openly without risking being killed by an Islamist who wishes to obey the Koran and follow Mohammad's example.
For example, those who malign the prophet and Allah will be cursed in this world and in the Hereafter (33:57); those who malign Muslims will be doomed (33:58). Those guilty of either hypocrisy, adultery or lechery, or sedition (alarmism; spreading false news), will be seized wherever they are found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter (33:60-62). For those transgressions, a brutal death seems like quite an excessive penalty by our modern standards. Nevertheless, 33:62 states that this harsh penalty had always been in accordance with Allah's law, and that it would remain so.
Seems that there is cumpulsion in Islam.
No Compulsion in Islam? - wel_mel_2 - 04-05-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:Some will use the following to present Islam as an open, tolerant religion, apologists typically present the famous "no compulsion" part of the Koran...
2:256: "There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower
However the verse which follows 2:256 seems to convey a different idea when read together...
2:257: "Allah is the protecting guardian of those who believe. He bringeth them out of darkness into light. As for those who disbelieve, their patrons are false deities. They bring them out of light into darkness. Such are the rightful owners of the Fire [of Hell]. They will abide therein [forever]."
Both verses together certainly convey a different message than the typical apologist snippet from 2:256. The pair of complete verses show the Koran's respective policies for Muslims (believers) and non-Muslims (disbelievers). Believers are warned not to slip into disbelief, and disbelievers are warned to become believers — or else. In other words, according to this passage, there is compulsion in Islam, despite the initial "no compulsion" statement. Verse 18:29, itself, bears some similarities to the 2:256-257 pair:
<b>Let’s see what the Bible said about compulsion:</b>
God of the Bible Chose the land of Palestine to be the Jews' "Promise Land", and thus, ordered them to go into it and fight the pagans there so they can have possession over it:
Numbers 13:26-28
26 They came back to Moses and Aaron and the whole Israelite community at Kadesh in the Desert of Paran. There they reported to them and to the whole assembly and showed them the fruit of the land.
27 They gave Moses this account: <b>"We went into the land to which you sent us, and it does flow with milk and honey! </b> Here is its fruit.
28 But the people who live there are powerful, and the cities are fortified and very large. We even saw descendants of Anak there.
Now, we may ask, <b>Did the disbelievers in the land of Palestine during the times of Moses start any war with the Hebrews who ORIGINALLY came from Egypt?? </b> Absolutely Not! So it seems that there is compulsion in the Bible.
Later on, the Hebrews or the "Israelites" or the "Jews" ‘call them as you wish’ have committed Pedophilia, Murders and Terrorism against those disbelievers:
<b>"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. </b>
(Numbers 31:17-18)"
<b>Now what crime did the innocent children and non virgin women commit in order for them to get killed?</b>
It is quite interesting that one of the 10 commandments says “Thou shall not kill/murder” <b>and yet the Bible ordered the killing of innocent children and non virgin girls by the mass. </b>
It seems that there is really no compulsion in the Bible.
And of course there is no need to mention about those innocent 42 kids who were killed by wild bears by Prophet Elisha, Or shall we mention about killing both righteous and wicked <b>(both are equal)</b>? Or we may talk about killing those who invite you to worship other than the God of the Bible even if they were your household? No need to mention because it seems that there is no compulsion in the Bible.
Quote:No statements in the Koran contradict this policy toward the disbelievers. That is, there are no verses that say "Be genuine friends with the disbelievers," or "Treat the disbelievers kindly, as good as you would treat Muslims").
<b>Absolute lie, the Qur’an is with us CC, we can very easy recognize the lairs. </b>
<b>Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Allah loves those who deal with equity. Al-Mumtahinah. Verse# 8</b>
Prophet Mohammad pbuh has also said:<b> “I shall plead on the day of judgment on behalf of a disbeliever who was harmed or whose due right was diminished or if more than bearable pressure was exerted on him or if something was taken from him without his consent by a believer.”</b>
Quote:The Koran repeatedly identifies the disbelievers as the enemy, evil, wicked, wrong-doers, evil-doers, on the side of Satan and fighting against Allah.
<b>And how the Bible identifies the disbelievers? No no how the Bible identify the believers themselves?</b> Don’t you know that Jesus addresses his own people as “an evil and adulteress generations”? Just because they were asking him to prove himself to be the true Christ!
Quote:Religious freedom requires the ability to freely express criticism of a religion. The Koran forbids this (2:2). As everyone now knows, it is not possible to criticize Islam openly without risking being killed by an Islamist who wishes to obey the Koran and follow Mohammad's example.
<b>Let the Bible speak:</b>
<b>"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God
..." </b> (Deuteronomy 13: 5)
<b>"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;"</b>
(Deuteronomy 13: 6)
<b>"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." </b>
(Deuteronomy 13:8-9)
<b>"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword."</b>
(Deuteronomy 13:15)
<b>"But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such a one as goeth on still in his trespasses. The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea: That thy foot may be dipped in the blood of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the same."</b>
(Psalms 68:21-23)
<b>"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."
</b> (I Samuel 6:19)
<b>I guess we can clearly see a plenty of <i>no compulsion </i> in the Bible and freedom of religion.</b>
Ready for you anytime CC, insh a Allah. Keep hitting your head :banghead:
Salam
Wael.
No Compulsion in Islam? - Muslimah - 04-05-2007
Bismillah
as salam alykom
Wael, I guess we need to explain to CC the quranic texts, other wise, when you introduce bible texts supporting compulsion, you are letting him get the impression that Quran calls for compulsion as well and you are just defending.
No Compulsion in Islam? - wel_mel_2 - 04-05-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum my dear sister.
Quote:Bismillah
as salam alykom
Wael, I guess we need to explain to CC the quranic texts, other wise, when you introduce bible texts supporting compulsion, you are letting him get the impression that Quran calls for compulsion as well and you are just defending.
No my sister, <b>CC perfectly know what I was talking about</b>. Sometimes ago, CC posted the same question and I did clarify this misconception Alhamdulelah <b>and he totally admits that this topic was cleared up</b>
.
Sadly, this time he was trying to provoke us, <b>he knew for sure that there is no compulsion in Islam as we will all see his own admission in this thread</b>.
Quote:Thanks for clearing this up...that is why I asked.
here is the thread.
Does the Qur'an promote violence to spread Islam?
So this time, I thought to share with him what the Bible said about compulsion, so next time insh a Allah, <b>he should think twice before accusing our faith</b>.
Salam
Wael.
No Compulsion in Islam? - Muslimah - 04-05-2007
Jazakum Allah khairan Wael for clearing this up, actually I meant to make this comment since I know very well that this is not your approach and by making this comment others can read and realise the manner of non muslims who then complain when we delet/ignore/ban...etc.
What I liked is that u posted the link proving how he repeats himself, how he has nothing to say, how he is acting irrationally.
You know what Wael? I was going to delet the thread because he is repeating himself, but may be leaving it has a better impact, if u know what I mean my dear brother :)
No Compulsion in Islam? - wel_mel_2 - 04-06-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:You bring up important points CC that the muslims fail (yet again) to address. Wel continues with his strategy of "LOOK !! Over there, christianity said something similar."
I hope you can focus on the topic instead of your nonsensical comments.
Salam
Wael.
No Compulsion in Islam? - Muslimah - 04-06-2007
Bismillah
as salam alykom
Sorry Wael but I take what I said back. I m sorry CC, I made my reply without referring back to the link Wael gave me. But still the reply on that link does not actually address the points CC brought up on this thread. Matter of fact they are totally different.
CC, Insh a Allah slowly I will go thru those points and Ayahs with u.
Astghferullah, may Allah Forgive me for making those comments quickly without checking properly.
No Compulsion in Islam? - Muslimah - 04-06-2007
Bismillah
as salam alykom
No CC, there is not compulsion in religion, but what is really apparent is that there is much confusion on your side. More than this, you are mixing up issues. You are mixing up the issue of compulsion with interrelation between Muslims and non Muslims.
Thus, in this post Insh a Allah I will only address the first issue which is the compulsion part based on the Ayahs you quoted.
The two Ayahs you quoted actually stress the no compulsion. How can you interepret it as (Believers are warned not to slip into disbelief, and disbelievers are warned to become believers — or else). What is even more important is that u r cutting and posting the Ayahs in a way that shows how much you are either confused or....Allah u a`lam. You need to post the 3 Ayahs consecutively as follows in order to explain the proper meaning.
How can u interpret the second one saying:
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right (Path of) Guidance has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
257.
Allah is the Protector of those who believe. He brings them out from darkness into light. But as for those who disbelieve, their Auliya (supporters and helpers) are Taghut [false deities and false leaders, etc.], they bring them out from light into darkness. Those are the dwellers of the Fire, and they will abide therein forever.
The first Ayahs initiates with telling everyone that we have the choice to make and religion shall not be imposed on no one. It is our choice, when this become our choice?? after Allah Allowed us means to distinuguish between, actually the word that is translated here as guidance bears a more comprehensive sense than this. In Arabic the word is Rushd opposite to ghay translated here as wrong path. But the former which is rushd would convey the meaning of rational, sensible, wise, sound, and because of all those descriptions, one who sees this path would cerainly realise the Existence of Allah as introduced through the Messenger. Opposite to the other word which is Ghay, ghay is a derivative of temptation, being tempted to the wrong path.
Thus, we can now say that after Allah Made it clear how to proceed and where to head and go, no one will force no one to embrace the religion. Then Allah Continues to Explain that after making both paths clear and with no compulsion, Allah presents the status of the believers who reject, resent, disapprove believing in taghut that are the idols, other gods than Allah, and only believed in Allah, they succeeded in holding tight to the proper handhold. Then Allah Continues to Explain that one who chooses to believe in Allah and reject other false gods would certainly gain the support of Allah more and more to Bring them into light, in other words to illuminate their paths, their insight. So long as one made a choice to believe in Allah, to come closer to Allah automatically Allah Shall grant the person an improved insight, ability to decide, mental capabilities, ....which is expressed here as taking them from darkness to light. In this regard, the person will be able to realise different things in the universe, realise Allah's multiple signs, shall see how Allah is manifest in each and every step this person makes.
Contrary to the one who makes the opposite choice as explained in the previous Ayah, those who disbelieved and chose to take the taghut as supporters, let the taghut bestow benefit. But what kind of benefit? darkness and darkness. Thus if u take an in depth look into the Ayahs, you will be able to understand that because there is not compulsion in religion, each person shall make a decision as to who is the supporter one is seeking Allah or taghut. However, just to further explain, if u look at the Ayahs, it tells you that Allah Shall Support and Help those who believed with light and insight. This in regard to understanding and staying firm on the correct path. But those who disbelieved shall not be denied their right of sustainenance, protection, provision, as Allah Is the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists which is stated in the previous Ayah: 2: 255. See CC, it does not really help to take Ayahs out of context. Because Allah Is the Ever living Who Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him, you and other disbelievers sleep soundly and not fear that the sky would slam down on them, does not worry about earth not producing plants, dont worry about sea not producing sea food, and and and. Thus, a non believer does enjoy equal rights as the believer in terms of sustainence, provision, protection....and even those who do good, they receive their reward in this life.
As for the Ayah you quoted 18: 29
Sobhan Allah, the Ayahs is soooo clear and proving more and more that we make a choice, based on this choice you shall be destined to whereeven you worded to earn. Now having this declared clearly in Quran which is a manual, a guide. Thus, we cannt claim that we were surprised, or that no one told us about the law. We know the law, but if u choose to break it, violate it, breach it, why would u complain? This is not compulsion, but rather this is the concept of transparency and sound governance, and accountability that the USA and western community is now calling for, advocating for and diffusing around the globe. Allah, 1427 years ago, established this concept Alhamdulelah.
Alhamdulelah who Guided us for this and if it wasnt for Him we would have never been guided.
No Compulsion in Islam? - Muslimah - 04-06-2007
Bismillah
As for the other part of the post dealing with the warning to the believers to take non believers as friends, I m 100% sure this issue was raised at least 1 or 2 times. But why not? let me try and paraphrase it.
No I cannt take non believers as friends, but I have to deal with them justly.
You cannt quote a set of Ayahs each one of them has different contexts and indications, and if u quote all of those ayahs, why didnt u quote:
Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.
Quran 60:8
Why cannt i take a non believer as a friend? u need to understand the issue of friendship in Islam. First the foundation of friendship of Islam must be establishing the relation in the name of Allah, loving one another for the sake of Allah. In other words, treating one another good not because the other party treats you good, but only for the sake of Allah. This foundation and basis can never be established with a non muslim. This is first and it is the foundation. Come let us move forward. Friends usually seek each other's advice and consultancey, how can a muslim consult a non muslim? the standards are different, the basis are different, the rules are different, the motives are different, the understanding of situations are also different. Thus, I can never seek friendship with a non muslims because this will be totally illogical. Just thinking about it. I mean let us reverse the situation, if u, hypothitcally speaking took a muslim as a friend, and went and shared a problem. The person will need to tell u a certain supplication to use, or if it is a test or a serious problem will bring to your attention the reward of those who are tested, or tell you how to handle it Islamicly. How this will help you?? certainly not. Then it is only logical for Allah to Tell us not to take a non Muslim as a friend for all of the previously mentioned and more.
But the basic rule between us and u is that to you is your religion and to me is mine. That is all.
No Compulsion in Islam? - Al-fateh - 04-06-2007
seems to me everyone here doesnt know what they are talking about...with all due respect to the mods, as well as the thread starter
what is meant by the verse
(2:256) There is no compulsion
and coercion in regard to religion
. *285 The right thing
has been made distinct from the wrong thing
: now whoever rejects taghut
*286 and believes in Allah has taken a firm support that never gives way.
*285. Din here signifies the belief about God embodied in the above 'Verse of the Throne' and the entire system of life which rests upon it. <b>The verse means that the system of Islam, embracing belief, morals and practical conduct cannot be imposed by compulsion</b>. <b>These are not things to which people can be yoked forcibly.</b>
*286.<b> Literally taghut means anvone who exceeds his legitimate limits. In the Qur'anic terminology, however, it refers to the creature who exceeds the limits of his creatureliness and arrogates to himself godhead and lordship. There are three stages of man's transgression and rebellion against God. The first stage is that one acknowledges in principle that obedience to God is right, but disregards it in practice. This is fisq (transgression).
The second stage is that one not only disobeys but also rejects obedience in principle, and thus either refuses to become the subject of anyone at all or adopts someone other than God as the object of service and devotion. This is kufr (infidelity).
The third stage is that one not only rebels against one's Lord but also imposes one's own will (in disregard of the Will of God - Ed.) on God's world and God's creatures. Anyone who reaches such a point is termed taghut and no one can be a true believer in God unless the authority of such a taghut (evil one) is rejected.
</b>
as for the next verse
(2:257) And Allah (Whose support he takes) hears everything and knows everything.
<b>Allah is the Helper and Protector of those who believe in Him: He brings them out of the depths of darkness *287 into the light
</b>. As for the disbelievers, they have
<b>taghut
</b>*288 as their patron,
<b>who drives them out of light into the depths of darkness
</b>.
These are the people who are doomed to the Fire, wherein they shall live for ever.
*287. The 'darkness' mentioned here means the darkness of Ignorance, which throws man off the path of salvation and well-being and directs his energies and efforts to wrong directions in defiance of reality. 'Light' here means the knowledge of Truth with the help of which man comes to know his own realitv and that of the universe; this knowledge also shows him the purpose of his life, and thus leads him consciously, to adopt the Right Way.
*288. Here taghut (see n. 286 above) has a plural connotation. It implies that by turning away from God a man is subjected not to the tyranny of one, but to the tyranny of many tawaghit (evil one). One of these is Satan, who throws up new temptations and allurements. Another potential taghut (transgressor) is man's own animal self, which seeks to subjugate him to his appetites and desires. There are many more taghut in the world outside oneself ; one's wife and children, one's relatives, one's family and one's community, one's friends and acquaintances, one's social environment and one's people, one's leaders and guides, one's government and rulers are all potential taghut, each one of whom seeks to have his purposes served. Man remains subjected to these innumerable masters throughout his life, not knowing precisely whom he should please and whose displeasure he should avoid.
i hope this clarifies things for everyone
Salam