Salaam Alaikum!

Israel will demolish more Palestinian homes while Colin Powell can only "oppose" it? Please! Why must the Geneva Convention be blithely sidestepped for fervid and carte blanche tactics? Your response is just as good as mine.

[As I posed to Rasha, if Israel is expanding into it’s own territories as they did during the 1967 war, then aren’t the Palestinians essentially Israeli’s?]

--Ibn

Take this for size!--Ibn

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"More Outraged By the Outrage"

By Mohammed Gill

The Bush hawks, so fixated on making the Middle East look more like America, have made America look un-American. (Maureen Dowd, Op-Ed, The New York Times, May 13, 2004)

The irrationality of Iraq war has driven a wedge in the heart of the American nation. It is polarized by strong feelings on the legality/morality of the Iraq war. These feelings have blinded many of the otherwise rational and normal people to an extent that they find it difficult to distinguish right from wrong. An instance of such skewed thinking is reflected in the comment made by Senator James Inhoffe of Oklahoma in support of the opening statement at the Senate Armed services committee hearings, read by Stephen Cambone, undersecretary for defense for intelligence. Mr. Cambone said, “Donald Rumsfeld was deeply committed to the Geneva Conventions protecting the rights of the prisoners, that every one knew it and that any deviation had to come from the command level, (Editorial, The Abu Ghraib Spin, New York Times, May 12, 2004). Senator Inhoffe lamely commented, “..he (Se. Inhoffe) was more outraged by the outrage than by the treatment of the prisoners. After all, he said, they were probably guilty of something.”

Such comments coming from the mouth of a Senator are simply mind boggling. Doesn’t the American system of justice give the benefit of the doubt to the accused? And many of these prisoners are not even accused of anything; they are simply detainees. Isn’t one innocent unless proven guilty? Condoning injustice is equally bad and culpable as committing it.

The gravity of the prisoners’ abuse is realized in the highest office in the U.S. including Donald Rumsfeld personally. In his statement to the Senate Armed Services committee, he said, “I feel terrible about what happened to these Iraqi detainees. They are human beings. They were in U.S. custody. Our country had an obligation to treat them right. We didn’t, and that was wrong…The photographic depictions of the U.S. military personnel that the public has seen have offended and outraged everyone in the Department of Defense. If you could have seen the anguished expressions on the faces of those in our department upon seeing those photos, you would know how we feel today.”

So there is hardly any difference of opinion on the fact that the indecent and dehumanizing treatment meted out to the Iraqi detainees was reprehensible and un-American, in spirit and character. Is it then outrageous that this abuse was brought out in public view to inform the citizens that their cherished values and the values of the civilized world were violated by the prison interrogators? If this expose’ has outraged the American public like everyone in the Department of Defense as asserted by the Secretary of Defense, why should Senator Inhoffe feel outraged by the public outrage? And from all portents, this is just the beginning, the tip of the iceberg as one may characterize. There is more to come. According to Donald Rumsfeld, “There are other photos that depict…acts that can only be described as blatant, sadistic, cruel and inhuman…It’s going to get still more terrible, I’m afraid.”

According to the New Yorker, issue of 2004-05-17, “NBC News later quoted U.S. military officials as saying that the unreleased photographs showed American soldiers ‘severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi prisoner and acting inappropriately with a dead body.’ The officials said there also was a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys.”

The scandal is still unraveling; it’s going to get worse and put President Bush’s administration under increased pressure. President Bush apologized publicly for the abuse inflicted on the Iraqi detainees. Questions have been raised if Donald Rumsfeld should resign voluntarily or else be fired by the President. Neither of this is on the horizon yet.

This is a tenuous issue which has the potential of backfiring politically. Rumsfeld’s resignation can have adverse repercussions for the reelection of President Bush. But such an action is right in view of the fact that the Secretary of Defense has already taken the responsibility of the interrogators’ misdeeds. This should square up his admission with the price that a responsible person should pay in such circumstances. Otherwise the verbal apology and assumption of responsibility are mere hollow and empty words.

The cockamamie of Rumsfeld’s position is eloquently summarized by Thomas L. Friedman (Op-Ed, The New York Times, May 13, 2004), “Here is the new Rummy defense: I am accountable. But the little guys were responsible. I was just giving orders.”

President also presumably cannot take the risk of firing Rumsfeld for more or less the same reason; that it might undermine his chances of reelection. The best that he can do is the damage control. After venting his ire on Donald Rumsfeld for keeping him in the dark, President Bush made a public statement after a couple of days of “strong endorsement of (his) embattled Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. You are doing a superb job, Bush said (to Rumsfeld),” (Yahoo! News, May 11, 2004, Taguba Cites Mismanagement in Iraq Abuse).

This is the usual razzmatazz; but then lot of politics is razzmatazz. And double talk is the hallmark of the present administration. There doesn’t seem to be any immediate threat to President Bush from the Democratic Presidential candidate, Senator John Kerry, who hasn’t tried to capitalize on Bush’s recent troubles. He hasn’t so far posed a viable threat to President Bush’s chance of reelection. Bush was leading Kerry in recent polls although he seems to have lost some ground after the prisoners’ scandal.

But firing of Rumsfeld might also help restoring Bush’s stature in the public eye and win him some more votes. For the sake of credibility of his administration, President Bush needs to take a tangible action which the public could directly perceive. Verbal apology(ies) and promises of ‘getting to the bottom of it’ are empty words which do not effectively catalyze the public reaction.

No matter how you look at the scandal, it is serious and probably will get even worse. Governments have fallen on lesser crimes and scandals. Harold Macmillan resigned from the office of British Prime Minister when the Christine Keeler scandal broke out.

I’ll end this article with General Taguba’s epitomizing of the scandal. When “asked to put in simple words how the abuses happened”, Taguba said, “Failure in leadership, sir, from the brigade commander on down. Lack of discipline, no training whatsoever and no supervision. Supervision omission was rampant.”

as salam alykom

brother Khairan, well I will not say lack of knowledge but surely u r much confused.

Forms of salat as well u have much consusion about Sobhan Allah but it is good u brought these points now

Pls bring in the specific Ayah with number and Surah and Insh a Allah I will explain.

hopefully for the best for everybody

What do you see when you look at me

Do you see someone limited, or someone free?

All some people can do is just look and stare

Simply because they can't see my hair.

Others think I am controlled and uneducated

They think that I am limited and un-liberated.

They are so thankful that they are not me

Because they would like to remain 'free.'

Well free isn't exactly the word I would've used

Describing women who are cheated on and abused.

They think that I do not have opinions or voice

They think that being hooded isn't my choice.

They think that the hood makes me look caged

That my husband or dad are totally outraged.

All they can do is look at me in fear

And in my eye there is a tear.

Not because I have been stared at or made fun of

But because people are ignoring the One up Above.

On the Day of Judgment they will be the fools

Because they were too ashamed to play by their own rules.

Maybe the guys won't think I am a cutie

But at least I am filled with more inner beauty.

See I have declined from being a guy's toy

Because I won't let myself be controlled by a boy.

Real men are able to appreciate my mind

And aren't busy looking at my behind.

Hooded girls are the ones really helping the Muslim cause

The role that we play definitely deserves applause.

I will be recognized because I am smart and bright

And because some people are inspired by my sight.

The smart ones are attracted by my tranquility

In the back of their mind they wish they were me.

We have the strength to do what we think is right

Even if it means putting up a life-long fight.

You see we are not controlled by a miniskirt and tight shirt

We are given only respect, and never treated like dirt.

So you see, we are the ones that are free and liberated

We are not the ones that are sexually terrorized and violated.

We are the ones that are free and pure

We're free of STD's that have no cure.

So when people ask you how you feel about the hood

Just sum it up by saying 'Baby, its all good!'

aslams

does anyone notise how israil just hates muslims? they kill our sheikhs and stuff yet not one calls them "terrersts". sad

as salam alyokom

yesterday I was talking to someone who is interested in Islam, she was sort of objecting to some positions in Quran on which Allah Calls us His servants.

She could not make out the reasoning behind it.

Sobhan Allah, besides what we discussed of that if we dont become Allah's servants, we will become enslaved to something/someone else. In other words we will choose something/ someone to submit to. Make our own regulations to abide by.

But what came to mind. Is what exactly is the relation between a slave and a master?? A slave is to obey the master, do the work without any argument or discussion, abide by the rules and regulations put forth by the master, receives not wage in return except for food and lodge, all the benefit in fact goes to the master.

Now apply this to our relation with Allah, we must obey Him yes, obey what He commanded in Quran, yes, but do we do this for free? No when we do it, we receive reward either here or in the Life after, if we dont, He still provides for us here Sobhan Allah.

Ok the issue is for us to obey Him like a servant obeys the master, but is it for Allah's benefit in this case? No contrary to the norm, it is for our benefit. Does Allah gain any benefit of this? No, do we really do it for free, no

Sobhan Allah And indeed We have put forth every kind of example in this Qur’ân, for mankind. But, man is ever more quarrelsome than anything.

Bismillah

As salam alaikum

I am taking a break from the rousing debates that are taking place and wanted to raise a curious and friendly question to ALL members of this board.

How many times a day do you on average check the message board. When I am in school, I check at most two times a day. When I am on break, I check it about four times a day. Is this excessive? Maybe we could form a support group for those of us who feel compulsively compelled to discover the latest tidbit of information or the newest debate.

My name is Dan and I am an Islammessage-aholic. :cry:

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

As i was going through an articles i read these verses of the quraan that had me DUMBSTRUCK....

SIMPLY AMAZING:

Quote:<i>Sura Taa haa(20):123-126</i><b></b>

قَالَ اهْبِطَا مِنْهَا جَمِيعًا بَعْضُكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ عَدُوٌّ فَإِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُم مِّنِّي هُدًى فَمَنِ اتَّبَعَ هُدَايَ فَلَا يَضِلُّ وَلَا يَشْقَى

وَمَنْ أَعْرَضَ عَن ذِكْرِي فَإِنَّ لَهُ مَعِيشَةً ضَنكًا وَنَحْشُرُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ أَعْمَى

قَالَ رَبِّ لِمَ حَشَرْتَنِي أَعْمَى وَقَدْ كُنتُ بَصِيرًا

قَالَ كَذَلِكَ أَتَتْكَ آيَاتُنَا فَنَسِيتَهَا وَكَذَلِكَ الْيَوْمَ تُنسَى

 

He (Allah) said:'Get you all down from here and if there comes to you guidance from Me, Whosoever follows my guidance then he will not go astray and neither will he be wretched. And whosoever turns away from My Rememberance then he will have a narrow, constricted life and We shall raise him on the day of Judgement blind. He will say ' O MY LORD! Why have you raised me blind while I had sight before?' He (Allah) will say:'Thus my signs came to you yet you forgot them so likewise, on this day will you be forgotten'

Quote:<i>Surah Ibrahim(14:32-34)</i><b></b>

اللّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ وَأَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء فَأَخْرَجَ بِهِ مِنَ الثَّمَرَاتِ رِزْقًا لَّكُمْ وَسَخَّرَ لَكُمُ الْفُلْكَ لِتَجْرِيَ فِي الْبَحْرِ بِأَمْرِهِ وَسَخَّرَ لَكُمُ الأَنْهَارَ

وَسَخَّر لَكُمُ الشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ دَآئِبَينَ وَسَخَّرَ لَكُمُ اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ

وَآتَاكُم مِّن كُلِّ مَا سَأَلْتُمُوهُ وَإِن تَعُدُّواْ نِعْمَتَ اللّهِ لاَ تُحْصُوهَا إِنَّ الإِنسَانَ لَظَلُومٌ كَفَّارٌ

 

Allaah is He who has created the heavens and the earth and sends down water (rain) from thesky, and thereby bought forth fruits as provisions for you; and He has made the ships to be of service to you, that they may sail through the seas by His Command; and He has made rivers also to be of service to you. And He has made the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses, to be of service to you; and He has made the night and day, to be of service to you. And He gave you all that you asked for, and if you count the blessings of Allaah, never will you be able to count them

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3716143.stm

Quote:\"We ambush their patrols and the Americans cannot get into the area because it's full of winding lanes and underground mausoleums,\" gunman Abdul Zahra Hadi told Reuters news agency from inside the cemetery this month.  \"We can hit and run and hide inside the many tombs.\"  

More liberal than their Arab and Asian couterparts??

Sure, generalizations aren't always good, and sure there are going to be exceptions.

But, pardon me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the muslims on this site from 'the west' (to save me typing time) are more open to introspection than those from elsewhere. I find that Muslimah, and others, are more apt to say "There is no options for what the Quran means. Allah Meant what was said, and nothing else".

I don't mean this in a bad or good way to either group. Just wondering if I'm seeing something that isn't there, or if others see such things as well