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  Was Paul A Deceiver?
Posted by: NewBeginning - 01-01-2007, 06:52 PM - Forum: Discussion of Beliefs - Replies (20)


http://www.answering-christianity.com/bass..._a_deciever.htm


Paul says...


2 Corinthians 12:16


Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty (panourgos) fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery (dolos)!


Paul refers to himself as a 'crafty' fellow. The word in Greek is panourgos, which could mean...


1) skilful, clever


a) in a good sense, fit to undertake and accomplish anything, dexterous, wise, sagacious, skilful


B) in a bad sense, crafty, cunning, knavish, treacherous, deceitful


Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/wor...69110-6606.html


Obviously Christians will tend to go for definition 'a', which states that it is cleverness in a good sense. However, when we read the rest of the verse...


Be that as it may, I have not been a burden to you. Yet, crafty (panourgos) fellow that I am, I caught you by trickery (dolos)!


The word for trickery here is dolos, which could mean...


1) craft, deceit, guile


Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/wor...69203-1025.html


This word is always used in a negative way...


Matthew 26:4


and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly (dolos) way and kill him.


Mark 7:22


greed, malice, deceit (dolos) lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.


Mark 14:1


Now the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread were only two days away, and the chief priests and the teachers of the law were looking for some sly (dolos) way to arrest Jesus and kill him.


John 1:47


When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false (dolos)."


Acts 13:10


"You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit (dolos) and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?


Romans 1:29


They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit (dolos) and malice. They are gossips,


1 Thessalonians 2:3


For the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick (dolos) you.


1 Peter 2:1


Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit (dolos) , hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind.


1 Peter 2:22


"He committed no sin, and no deceit (dolos) was found in his mouth."


1 Peter 3:10


For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful (dolos) speech.


Revelation 14:5


No lie (dolos) was found in their mouths; they are blameless.


As we can see this word is always being used negatively. This is the very thing that Paul claimed to have done. Does this make Paul guilty of deception? Jesus himself says in Mark 7:22 that it is a sin and that it is something that makes someone unclean from inside (verse 23).

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  101 Contradictions in the Bible:
Posted by: NewBeginning - 01-01-2007, 06:45 PM - Forum: Discussion of Beliefs - Replies (31)


101 Contradictions in the Bible:


101 Clear Contradictions in the Bible


Shabir Ally


1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?


God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)


Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)


2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?


Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)


One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)


3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?


Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)


Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)


4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?


Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)


Three (I Chronicles 21:12)


5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?


Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)


Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)


6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?


Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)


Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)


7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?


Three months (2 Kings 24:8)


Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)


8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?


Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)


Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)


9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?


After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)


Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)


10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?


Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)


Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)


11. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?


One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)


Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)


12. How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?


Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)


Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)


13. In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?


Twenty-sixth year (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)


Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)


14. How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?


Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)


Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)


15. Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?


Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)


Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)


16. Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?


Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)


Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)


17. How many were the children of Zattu?


Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)


Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)


18. How many were the children of Azgad?


One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)


Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)


19. How many were the children of Adin?


Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)


Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)


20. How many were the children of Hashum?


Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)


Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)


21. How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?


Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)


One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)


22. Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:


29,818 (Ezra)


31,089 (Nehemiah)


23. How many singers accompanied the assembly?


Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)


Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)


24. What was the name of King Abijahs mother?


Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)


Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)


25. Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?


Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)


No (Joshua 15:63)


26. Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?


Jacob (Matthew 1:16)


Hell (Luke 3:23)


27. Jesus descended from which son of David?


Solomon (Matthew 1:6)


Nathan(Luke3:31)


28. Who was the father of Shealtiel?


Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)


Neri (Luke 3:27)


29. Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?


Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)


Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.


30. Who was the father of Uzziah?


Joram (Matthew 1:8)


Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)


31. Who was the father of Jechoniah?


Josiah (Matthew 1:11)


Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)


32. How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?


Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)


But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)


33. Who was the father of Shelah?


Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)


Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)


34. Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?


Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)


No (John 1:19-21)


35. Would Jesus inherit Davids throne?


Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)


No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon Davids throne (Jeremiah 36:30)


36. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?


One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.


Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.


37. How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?


By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)


His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)


38. Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?


By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)


On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)


39. When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus daughter already dead?


Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, My daughter has just died.


No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, My little daughter is at the point of death.


40. Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?


Yes (Mark 6:8)


No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)


41. Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?


Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)


No (Luke 9:9)


42. Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?


Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)


No (John 1:32,33)


43. Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?


Yes (John 1:32, 33)


No (Matthew 11:2)


44. According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?


If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true (John 5:3 1)


Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true (John 8:14)


45. When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day?


Yes (Matthew 21:12)


No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark I 1:1- 17)


46. The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once?


Yes. (Matthew 21:19)


No. It withered overnight (Mark II: 20)


47. Did Judas kiss Jesus?


Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)


No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)


48. What did Jesus say about Peters denial?


The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times (John 13:38)


Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times (Mark 14:30) . When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.


49. Did Jesus bear his own cross?


Yes (John 19:17)


No (Matthew 27:31-32)


50. Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?


Yes (Matthew 27:50-51; Mark lS:37-38)


No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit! And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)


51. Did Jesus say anything secretly?


No. I have said nothing secretly (John 18:20)


Yes. He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him Why do you speak to them in parables? He said, To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)


52. Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?


On the cross (Mark 15:23)


In Pilates court (John 19:14)


53. The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?


Yes (Mark 15:32)


No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)


54. Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?


Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, Today you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43)


No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, I have not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17)


55. When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice?


Yes (Acts9:7)


No (Acts22:9)


56. When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground?


Yes (Acts 26:14)


No (Acts 9:7)


57. Did the voice spell out on the spot what Pauls duties were to be?


Yes (Acts 26:16-18)


No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts9:7;22: 10)


58. When the Israelites dwelt in Shittin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague?


Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9)


Twenty-three thousand (I Corinthians 10:8)


59. How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt?


Seventy souls (Genesis 4 & 27)


Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14)


60. What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus?


He bought a field (Acts 1: 18)


He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5)


61. How did Judas die?


After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)


After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)


62. Why is the field called Field of Blood?


Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8)


Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19)


63. Who is a ransom for whom?


The Son of Man came...to give his life as a ransom for many (Mark 10:45). Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all... (I Timothy 2:5-6)


The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright (Proverbs 21:18)


64. Is the law of Moses useful?


Yes. All scripture is... profitable... (2 Timothy 3:16)


No. . . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness... (Hebrews 7:18)


65. What was the exact wording on the cross?


This is Jesus the King of the Jews (Matthew 27:37)


The King of the Jews (Mark 15:26)


This is the King of the Jews (Luke 23:38)


Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews (John 19:19)


66. Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?


Yes (Matthew 14:5)


No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)


67. Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?


Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)


Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Lukes gospel (Luke 6:12-16)


68. Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collectors office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?


Matthew (Matthew 9:9)


Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27)


69. Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?


After (Mark 14:12-17)


Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilates judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)


70. Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?


Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)


No. (John 12:27)


71. In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did he move away from his disciples to pray?


Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42)


One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46)


72. Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer?


Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:3 9)


Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42)


73. What did the centurion say when Jesus dies?


Certainly this man was innocent (Luke 23:47)


Truly this man was the Son of God (Mark 15:39)


74. When Jesus said My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken Me ? in what language did he speak?


Hebrew: the words are Eloi, Eloi ..(Matthew 27:46)


Aramaic: the words are Eloi, Eloi .. (Mark 15:34)


75. According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died?


Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit! (Luke 23:46)


"It is finished" (John 19:30)


76. When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this?


Yes (Matthew 8:5)


No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3,6)


77.


Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)


Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)


78.


God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)


Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)


79. Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven?


No (John 3:13)


Yes. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven (2 Kings 2:11)


80. Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread?


Abiathar (Mark 2:26)


Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (I Samuel 1:1; 22:20)


81. Was Jesus body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs?


Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40)


No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus) (Mark 16: 1)


82. When did the women buy the spices?


After the Sabbath was past (Mark 16:1)


Before the Sabbath. The women prepared spices and ointments. Then, on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment (Luke 23:55 to 24:1)


83. At what time of day did the women visit the tomb?


Toward the dawn (Matthew 28: 1)


When the sun had risen (Mark 16:2)


84. What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb?


To anoint Jesus body with spices (Mark 16: 1; Luke 23:55 to 24: 1)


To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28: 1)


For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the Sabbath (John 20: 1)


85. A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?


They saw that the stone was Rolled back (Mark 16:4) They found the stone rolled away from the tomb (Luke 24:2) They saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb (John 20:1)


As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)


86. Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus body?


Yes. A young man in a white robe (Mark 16:5). Two men ... in dazzling apparel later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)


No. Mary met no one and returned saying, They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him (John 20:2)


87. When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?


Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)


On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him Teacher. Jesus said to her, Do not hold me... (John 20:11 to 17)


88. What was Jesus instruction for his disciples?


Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me (Matthew 2 8: 10)


Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God (John 20:17)


89. When did the disciples return to Galilee?


Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee some doubted (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist


After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:3 3). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them during forty days (Acts 1:3), and charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise ... (Acts 1:4)


90. To whom did the Midianites sell Joseph?


To the Ishmaelites (Genesis 37:28)


To Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh (Genesis 37:36)


91. Who brought Joseph to Egypt?


The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then took Joseph to Egypt (Genesis 37:28)


The Midianites had sold him in Egypt (Genesis 37:36)


Joseph said to his brothers I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt (Genesis 45:4)


92. Does God change his mind?


Yes. The word of the Lord came to Samuel: I repent that I have made Saul King... (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)


No. God will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent (I Samuel 15:29)


Yes. And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel (I Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:


i. The Lord was sorry that he made man (Genesis 6:6)


I am sorry that I have made them (Genesis 6:7)


ii. And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people (Exodus 32:14).


iii. (Lots of other such references).


93. The Bible says that for each miracle Moses and Aaron demonstrated the magicians did the same by their secret arts. Then comes the following feat:


Moses and Aaron converted all the available water into blood (Exodus 7:20-21)


The magicians did the same (Exodus 7:22). This is impossible, since there would have been no water left to convert into blood.


94. Who killed Goliath?


David (I Samuel 17:23, 50)


Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19)


95. Who killed Saul?


Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.... Thus Saul died... (I Samuel 31:4-6)


An Amalekite slew him (2 Samuel 1:1- 16)


96. Does every man sin?


Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810)


No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)


97. Who will bear whose burden?


Bear one anothers burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2)


Each man will have to bear his own load (Galatians 6:5)


98. How many disciples did Jesus appear to after his resurrection?


Twelve (I Corinthians 15:5)


Eleven (Matthew 27:3-5 and Acts 1:9-26, see also Matthew 28:16; Mark 16:14 footnote; Luke 24:9; Luke 24:3 3)


99. Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?


After his baptism, the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days ... (Mark 1:12-13)


Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee - two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11)


100. Was baby Jesus life threatened in Jerusalem?


Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died (Matthew 2:13 23)


No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40)


101. When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond?


They worshipped him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God (Matthew 14:33)


They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened (Mark 6:51-52)

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  Leading Wahhabi Stokes The Fires Of Hate
Posted by: Ruggedtouch - 01-01-2007, 03:23 AM - Forum: Discussion of Beliefs - No Replies


Fourteen centuries is a long time for smoldering embers of hate to burn. I think as we’ll see, those smoldering hatreds are going to erupt into a raging inferno.


Revered Saudi cleric denounces Shi'ites as infidels





Quote:DUBAI, Dec 29 (Reuters) - An influential cleric of Saudi Arabia's hardline Sunni school of Islam has denounced Shi'ite Muslims as "infidels" in a new religious edict that comes amid rising sectarian tension in the region.
"The rejectionists (Shi'ites) in their entirety are the worst of the Islamic nation's sects. They bear all the characteristics of infidels," Sheikh Abdel-Rahman al-Barrak said in the fatwa, or ruling, distributed on Islamist Web sites.


"They are in truth polytheist infidels, though they hide this," it said, citing theological differences 14 centuries after the death of the Prophet Mohammad, such as reverence of shrines which followers of Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi school consider abhorrent.


Concern is growing in Saudi Arabia, birthplace of Islam, over Shi'ite-Sunni violence in Iraq which has taken the northern neighbour to the brink of civil war. Sunni-Shi'ite tensions are also high in Lebanon, where Shi'ites are leading efforts to bring down a Sunni-led cabinet.


"The Sunni and Shi'ites schools of Islam are opposites that can never agree, there can be no coming together unless Sunnis give up their principles," the fatwa said.


Barrak, an independent scholar, has come to be regarded by many as the highest authority for Wahhabi Muslims.

Ya' know, everytime I hear another politburo mouthpiece for islam utter the "fatwa" word, I just know that humanity is going to suffer because of it.


Anyway, this is pretty powerful stuff. In the orbit of the Moslem social milieu, being labeled an infidel is about as hateful a condemnation as can be hurled.


Although, this is all about a centuries old blood feud that, in an age of Moslems with a hand on the trigger of nukes, places the entire globe at risk. The most recent flare up in the Sunni-Shia hatefest resulted in the (Sunni) Iraq vs. (Shia) Iran war of attrition. The prospect of a nuclear Iran, ruled by Death Cult Endtimers’s, is absolutely chilling. Iran and Iraq during their 8 year long slugfest managed to do substantial damage and cause phenomenal loss of life. It’s likely that only the lack of “better” technology stopped them from obliterating entire cities and populations in the course of a single afternoon. Does anyone really believe the Iran vs. Iraq war would not have rivaled the death tally of Stalin or Mao if they had the ability to slaughter on a grander scale?

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  Hajj an Adventure for Young Americans
Posted by: NewBeginning - 01-01-2007, 02:20 AM - Forum: Current Affairs - Replies (4)


Hajj an Adventure for Young Americans


By LEE KEATH


The Associated Press


Sunday, December 31, 2006; 6:14 PM


MINA, Saudi Arabia -- The 20-year-old American tells his hajj pilgrimage stories a mile a minute, his hands moving in excitement _ about how he arrived in Mecca days ago, lost amid the massive crowds, and saw a man drop dead while circling the Kaaba.


"Dude, I saw it, the guy had the most peaceful smile on his face," Adil Muschelewicz, performing the pilgrimage for the first time, said Sunday, his head shaved bald after a ritual a day earlier.


An aerial view of two of three huge stone pillars as Muslim pilgrims seen cast stones at it in the symbolic stoning of the devil for the second day in Mina, near Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Sunday, Dec. 31, 2006. Some threw with fury, others just tossed their stones quietly cursing evil and temptation as some 3 million Muslims performed a symbolic stoning of the devil Sunday in one of the most dramatic _ and dangerous _ rites of the hajj pilgrimage. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra) (Khalil Hamra - AP)


The young man from Easley, S.C., had arrived alone in Mecca because of a travel agent screw-up that prevented his family from arriving for three days. He was with hundreds of thousands of others circling the Kaaba, the black stone cube that is Islam's holiest site, when he saw the elderly man fall dead. The body was quickly lifted out of the crowd.


Muschelewicz didn't know the cause of the man's death _ exhaustion maybe, he said _ but it became one of the many powerful religious moments that have shaken him during the trip.


"I looked at his face and I looked at the Kaaba, and it was like he was happy, he'd gotten close to God. It just went boom, like this deep bass line in my heart," he said. "It was so emotional. I was by myself, in this wild place I'd never been before."


For young American Muslims far from home, the hajj pilgrimage is an awesome adventure that they say deepens their faith and connects them with the wide range of Muslim peoples.


The annual hajj is overwhelming even for those who have done it before.


Some 3 million pilgrims from all over the world move between the holiest sites of Islam, in and around Mecca, over the course of five days, tracing the steps of the Prophet Muhammad and Ibrahim _ or Abraham to Christians and Jews _ considered in Islam as the first Muslim.


Traffic jams are epic _ it can take more than an hour for a bus to drive 200 yards.


Amid the hundreds of thousands of people moving on foot for miles, you can turn and find the friend by your side has disappeared. Pilgrims often go days on only a few hours sleep, snatched whenever possible amid the constant movement.


It is also a sensory overload, with a soundtrack in languages from around the world _ Arabic, English, Turkish, Malay and Bahasa, Urdu and Hindi. Intense poverty collides with wealth, with some pilgrims sleeping on the garbage-strewn pavement and others staying in "five-star" tents with meals and other facilities provided.


More than 20,000 Americans are participating in this year's hajj, a higher number than usual because the pilgrimage, which began Thursday and ends Monday, coincides with Christmas and New Year's holidays.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6123100438.html

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  After Hajj
Posted by: NewBeginning - 12-31-2006, 03:26 PM - Forum: "And remind for reminding benefit the believers - No Replies


AFTER HAJJ


How fortunate are these souls who are blessed with the following words from Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wasallam :


"Whoever performs Hajj for the Pleasure of Allah and therein utters no word of evil, nor commits any evil deed, shall return from it (free from sin) as the day on which his mother gave birth to him."


Bukhaari, Muslim


"Verily there shall be no reward for a Mabroor Hajj except Jannah."


Bukhaari, Muslim


It is hoped that all the pilgrims were sincere in their intentions and had traveled thousands of miles only to secure the Pleasure of Allah by fulfilling the obligation laid down upon them. May Allah the Almighty grant all the pilgrim’s acceptance and grant them opportunity again and again to visit the Sacred bud. Aameen.


Nevertheless, we wish to draw the attention of the pilgrims towards certain points which are necessary and of utmost importance to observe and for which many pilgrims are seen neglectful of their significance.


Firstly the sincerity of intention should remain even after the performance of Hajj. There should be no pomp or show. One should not wish to be called or recognized as a Haajjee.


Many people adopt the habit of talking frequently about their journey in order that people may come to know of their Hajj. They talk about the expenses incurred in the way of Allah, their charity amongst the poor and needy, their devotion and worship, their assisting the weak and old, etc.; and all is mentioned only with the intention of gaining fame. This is a deceit from Shaytaan who ruins the ibaadat without the person even knowing. It is therefore of great importance that the pilgrim does not talk about his Hajj without necessity as it may lead to 'Riyaa' (show, insincerity). However, if necessity arises and one must talk about his Hajj then he is at liberty to do so. But, he must not indulge in this type of conversation unnecessarily.


Secondly it is noted through experience, that many pilgrims return with only the bad side of the journey and make it a habit of talking about nothing except the hardships they have encountered during Hajj. The pilgrims should strictly refrain from this. On the contrary they should talk about the greatness of the sacred places, the spiritual gains, the enjoyment in devotions of Haramayn - Umrah, Tawaaf, Salaam on the Sacred Grave, Salaat in Masjid-ul-Haraam and Masjid-un-Nabawi etc. If one looks at his journey of Hajj carefully he will find that the good things far outweighs the bad. Every second spent in these sacred places is incomparable with anything in the world.


The journey of Hajj is a long journey; one has to travel by air, pass the immigrations, go through the customs, encounter people who speak foreign languages, etc. In these circumstances, difficulties are certain to arise. when we travel in our country do we always travel with comfort and ease? Do we never encounter difficulty? Do we not find ourselves held up in traffic for hours on a Motorway? Considering the fact that 2 - 3 million pilgrims perform the rituals of Hajj at one time, in one place and that they all come from different countries and backgrounds and that many of them have never before used or seen the facilities available to them. We think the difficulties encountered are insignificant. Moreover, the pilgrims are rewarded abundantly by Allah Ta'aala upon every difficulty encountered in their journey whereas tile same is not tile case whilst we are on another journey.


Those people who engage in these types of conversation become the cause of discouragement to others who have not yet had the opportunity to perform Hajj. These unfortunate pilgrims fall into the category


... and who stop (men) from the way of Allah, and from the Sacred Masjid, ...


mentioned in Surah Hajj in the Qur'aan. They should take heed that if people are discouraged by their conversation and postpone their Hajj then those who have discouraged them will be equally responsible.


Thirdly the sign of a 'Mabroor Hajj' or an 'accepted Hajj' is that upon one's return, his life changes from worst to good. He becomes totally punctual in fulfilling the commands of Allah Ta'aala. His love and inclination towards the Hereafter increases and love for the worldly pleasures decline. Therefore, it is essential that the pilgrim is watchful over his actions and should try his utmost to instill in himself good characters and refrain from all types of evil. He should try his best to fulfill the obligations laid down by Allah and avoid all the things forbidden by Him.


http://www.islaam.org/Hajj/hajj-36.htm

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  Closing out 2006
Posted by: Ruggedtouch - 12-31-2006, 02:16 PM - Forum: Discussion of Beliefs - No Replies


Hold your breath infidels. We’re on the verge of completing 2006 without enjoying the fruits of <i>peaceful inner strugglers</i>™ murderous plans for us in the West. While jihad's apologists in the West wring their hands over our <i>islamophobic</i>™ treatment of those who would murder us wholesale in the name of their deity, the laws and measures to protect us and our way of life have kept us free from the hoped for mass murder
that would otherwise have been visited upon us by Islam’s holy warriors.




Quote:MADRID, Spain: Bombs left on commuter trains in a busy station in Germany. A plot to blow up tunnels and flood New York City's financial district. Another to bring down packed commuter airliners flying out of London.
Islamic militants had no shortage of murderous ideas in 2006, but for the first time since before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, a year neared its close without a major attack in the West.


In a wide-ranging analysis, security and intelligence leaders around the world told The Associated Press that their success was due to more than just luck. Far greater human and technological resources, tougher anti-terror laws, a deeper understanding of the homegrown nature of the threat and the hard lessons learned from past failures — all these have all helped avert catastrophe, they said.


But they also cautioned against complacency, saying another attack is inevitable. A senior Spanish intelligence official who recently stepped down as head of a national counter-terror unit warned that the absence of deadly attacks this year does not mean the world should expect similar results in 2007.

Yes - another attack is inevitable. Not if, but when.


As we all know, legions of virulently angry and disaffected Buddhists, Episcopalians and Hare Krishna’s are seething with hatred and seeking to employ the means and methods to murder and maim the dirty infidel who refuse to accept the supremacy of their particular ideology and … <i><b>tire screech sound effect</b></i>… Oh, sorry. I was momentarily transported to an alternate reality…


In the meantime, the seditious snakes comprised of CAIR, <i>et al.</i> will be working diligently to scrape away at the legislative and security initiatives that have kept the sons of Islam from doing a repeat performance of 9/11.

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  A couple of Questions
Posted by: Teh_Curious - 12-31-2006, 01:10 AM - Forum: Discussion of Beliefs - Replies (4)


whats the difference between Shia and Sunni ?


and in a general way where did Sharia law come from and whats peoples thoughts about living in a country governed by these laws?

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  HAPPY NEW YEARS
Posted by: Teh_Curious - 12-30-2006, 10:49 PM - Forum: Discussion of Beliefs - Replies (1)


Happy new years to you all


may we all find peace and happyness in 2007 and beyond

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  Saddam is DEAD
Posted by: Aman - 12-30-2006, 03:49 AM - Forum: Current Affairs - Replies (17)


Man this is going to be bad for many. Majority of the countries were against his death,even the majority of iraqis and muslims.Trial was unfair and provided no solid proof under the bush administration. Many iraqi's didn't wanted saddam to be dead, ohh well. The results are goin to be bad, hope everyone stay safe. Hussein was hanged before dawn on Saturday in Iraq, at about 6 a.m. (9 p.m. Friday USA central time). Judge Haddad who announced this final sentence is bought by the bush administration. Hussein will be hanged along with two others, Barzan Hassan and Awad Bandar. All were convicted of killing 148 Shiite Muslims in the Iraqi town of Dujail nearly 25 years ago. 25 years ago when usa supported saddam, now anyone gets it?


Saturday is a start of Eid Al-Adha and its against islamic beliefs to kill a person during this period, its a sin and for sunni's Eid had began on saturday and saddam was a sunni and he was executed on saturday in iraq. I am not ready what the muslims in iraq would do after hearing that saddam is dead specially begining of eid. The US army has put a curfew on the streets of iraq and specially baghdad and faluja. U.S. soldiers guarding Hussein on Tuesday took away a radio he kept in his cell so he could not hear news reports about his death sentence, which was confirmed that day.

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  Blame America
Posted by: Ruggedtouch - 12-30-2006, 12:48 AM - Forum: Discussion of Beliefs - No Replies


So, you say that your Islamist dystopia is ethically and morally bankrupt, your citizens are starving, you’re a third world nation and you’re obsessed with creating the elements to wage nuclear jihad and all you can think to do is to build a colossal worldview of lies and deceit complete with a military armed with nukes? Blame America! Or perhaps your oil drunk leaders are apathetic to the grinding oppression of your wretched existence, with only hatred for the sake of a deity as your only respite? <i>Marg bar Amrika!</i> (Death to America!) Maybe you've reached the upper echelons in the depraved world of the Indonesian jihad mafia, only to have some incompetent's shoddy bomb explode in front of your house? You, my death cult jihadi, should blame America





Quote:Tehran's Substitute Friday prayers leader Ayatollah Emami Kashani warned Muslims against plots made by the West to sow discord among the Shia and Sunni.
"The enemy is preparing a massive plan for the Islamic world and for the entire region," said the cleric addressing the worshipers at Tehran University campus.


He stressed that after the Western states were obliged to admit the defeat of their policies in Iraq, Lebanon and Afghanistan, they have decided to set up new plans.


"Shia-Sunni division is a dirty lesson taught by the world arrogance in Muslim countries," Ayatollah Kashani said regretting that the lesson was used by some of the Muslim states.


The cleric urged Muslims countries to stay united and close their ranks further in order "to disappoint enemies of the Islamic world." Referring to adoption of the anti-Iran Resolution 1737 by the United Nations Security Council, the ayatollah said that West has "falsely portrayed Iran as a country which threatens international security by developing nuclear weapons."


"Those who produce atomic arms and kill other human beings by giving such arms to other countries are now accusing Iran of developing nuclear weapons," Ayatollah Kashani said.


He added that the West was to question Iran's political and economic place by introducing it as threat to the world security.


"Iran is committed to its international obligations and favors negotiations," said the cleric reassuring that Tehran was not pursuing any program to develop nuclear arms.


However, he stressed, Iranian nation would not give up its efforts to achieve its scientific goals.


Stressing that the issue of Iran's peaceful nuclear activities was politicized, the cleric said "it is now considered as a cold war." 1486/1394/1414

The sheer hostility, stupid paranoia, and insensate hatred for all things infidel found in Islam are truly staggering. As a means of avoiding any action to improve their own lives, these cultists will invent an external enemy to foist blame upon for all their self inflicted ills.


I think the good sheik somehow missed the email about Shia/ Sunni hatreds dating back more than a thousand years, that Moslems, all of them, have fought civil wars with other moslems and moslem rebels, that half of the “rightly guided Caliphs” were assassinated by other Moslems. We see demonstration of this dynamic in Iraq today. The Shia/ Sunni hatreds are boiling over with insensate rage and callous disregard for life. The bodies of hapless victims are sprouting up like summer dandelions all over the country.


But hey, blame America for your ancient hatreds.

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